Mysteries around Kaga Goto

[Charlie C]

Hi all,

 

I've just joined this wonderful forum. It is so full of knowledgeable and kind people so I want to ask a question that has been haunting me for a while.

 

We know that NBTHK assigns fittings to specific schools during the shinsa process without providing clear criteria. Some schools have more pronounced detectable features, like Ichinomoya and Ishiguro, while some don't. It can be especially confusing when multiple schools share similar features and I just do not know how NBTHK tells one from the other. For example, Kaga Kinko and Kaga Goto. 

 

The tradition of employing sword-fitting craftsmen in the Kaga clan starts when 前田利家 hires 後藤琢乘 (喜兵衛 school), then later 前田利常 hires 後藤顕乗 (理兵衛 school) and 後藤覚乗 (勘兵衛 school). There is another strain of self-claiming Goto school called 後藤清兵衛 or 後藤才次郎 who started to serve the Maeda family since 前田利常. Among these waki-goto masters, 後藤顕乗 and 後藤程乗 from the 理兵衛 school actually were 'promoted' to be the main strain master of the Goto family, so there are at least five different types of Goto styles that co-exist in the Kaga clan. They all contributed to mentoring other local craftsmen who were later known as Kaga Kinko, including the famous 水野 and 桑村 families.

 

So here is my question: What does Kaga-Goto and Kaga-Kinko really mean? Kaga-Goto cannot be assigned based on quality because some 桑村 works are generally believed to be better than waki-goto works, and 桑村 are not members of Goto. Kaga-Goto cannot be assigned based on identity because some of the five Goto styles in Kaga should surely be identical with waki-goto in Kyoto. If so, what could be the criteria?

 

It would be great if you could leave your thoughts or post photos of your Kaga-Goto/Kinko pieces. I would appreciate any input.

 

Thanks.

C. C.

 

 

[Mantis dude]

Hi,  I'm wondering if going through the kaga kinko taiken would help answer.  This may be too simple an answer for what you are asking but my gut would say, Kaga kinko would employ just hira zogan (aka kaga zogan- flat inlay of metals).  Kaga Goto uses all the other techniques that Goto would use ie nanako & other inlay methods other than just the hira zogan.   I always called Kaga pieces using just hira zogan as painting with metals.  The reflections of just gold and silver as you tilt the light source makes the pieces come to life.  If you can't tell, I might have more exposure to kinko side than the goto side (based on my definition).  But I love the Kaga schools and find their work top notch and most interesting.  Always love to see examples (even ones without mantis - although mantis add class to a piece).

 

all the Best.

Ken aka "The mantis dude"

[Curran]

@Charlie C

 

That is a very interesting topic, punching more deeply into the subject than the average thread here.

The Kaga Kinko Taikan was one of the first Taikans I ever bought.

 

As you have laid out, the school is an evolution of imported influences as the Maeda gained strength.

It is not like there was one center for metalwork in Kaga.

The differences are often technical and usually:

 

(1) based upon the technique,  [ex.  say nanako work for instance] 

(2) the metal purity [ex. shakudo],

(3) difference in reagants for patinas, etc,

(4) framing and execution of designs.  Just like unsigned paintings, you can tell a lot from various ways of doing things. [I personally believe this to be very true of Goto Kenjo's Kaga work]

 

I have 3 Tokubetsu Hozon works that are: Kenjo, Kenjo, and Kaga Goto [very sure it is Kenjo too]

I also have a nice Hozon f/k that is to Kaga Kinko that is more reflective of the painting style inlay that Ken described.

If time allows, I will post pics of some or all this weekend.

 

 

C.C.C. 

[Curran]

Goto Kenjo Kozuka next to his father's verion of the same theme.

 

I'll take a quick pick of other Kaga Goto examples later today or tomorrow.

[Mantis dude]

Just an FYI, I was curious about what papers are saying in reference to Kaga kinko, kaga goto and I think I have seen instances of Kaga zogan label also being used (i didn't do a good job of actually confirming that was written).  I did find some descriptions of Kaga goto school employing nanako, deep carvings & varying inlay techniques  (in essence goto type work).  However, I'm not so sure that papers are actually reflecting all of this.  in other words, I'm finding attributions that are being applied without any clear explanation.  something I would label kaga goto has kaga kinko papers.  This might be one of the instances where  different evaluating groups papered using the terms interchangeably.    This wasn't a deep dive study just a quick look at pieces with papers.  Although, many do follow that pattern, several have not.  So I'm just going to focus on the beauty and skill of all kaga types and leave the papering orgs study to others who are more knowledgeable/active in the paper process. 

 

A side note; anyone that hasn't seen the Kaga Kinko Taikan book is definitely missing out on a book of "sword porn".  Some great pieces in that book and worthy of owning it, if you find one.

 

Look forward to seeing more pieces.

[Charlie C]

@Mantis dude Thanks for your insights Ken! I do agree that using hira zougan is a major hallmark of the general Kaga school, but it doesn't seem to differentiate the Kaga Kinko and the Kaga Goto. For example, the Mizuno family in the Kaga Kinko school produced many pieces without using hira zougan (see this https://www.kanazawa-bidai.ac.jp/institute/miz/miz-edo/sum-mizuno01.htm), and Kuwabara commented that the Kuwamura family in the Kaga Kinko school produced better nanako-ji than some later Goto main strain masters (though I was not able to find any pics online). The Kaga Goto school also seem to employ hira zougan as frequently as other Kaga people. And you are right, the NBTHK often just (lazily) say Kaga Zougan instead of specifying Goto or not when hira zougan is massively used in a fitting. Unfortunately I do not have the Taiken book - am trying to find one not so expensive ...

 

@Curran Amazing collection! So the pic above is 顕乗 and below is 徳乗? This is one of the reasons why I say the Kaga Goto thing is a mess: 顕乗、程乗、覚乗 and others each bring something of their own into this melting pot and blend with local tradition, making the descendants undistinguishable. The metal purity seems to be a promising criterion, if the Gotos are believed to have better shakudo then the Kaga Goto may also have better ones than their local pupils. However, considering that the 理兵衛 and 勘兵衛 masters only stay for no more than 6 months in Kanazawa each year, it would make an amusing scene if they always travel with some huge chunk of secretly made high-quality shakudo. Please post some more pics so we can see the comparison!!

[Curran]

49 minutes ago, Charlie C said:

@Mantis dude  Unfortunately I do not have the Taiken book - am trying to find one not so expensive ...

 

@Curran  So the pic above is 顕乗 and below is 徳乗? 

 

As Ken said, the Kaga Kinko Taikan is one of the best [Tosogu Porn] books. I have to say I paid a lot more for mine than the one Grey Doffin has on his website. The book is good enough that I thought of buying a second copy.

 

@Charlie C  You are correct. Top one is Goto Kenjo and bottom one is Goto Tokujo.   Though of the same design, when you get to study them closely (at different angles), you begin to sense patterns in terms of how they 'framed' the design and executed it. One thing that I will share about Goto Kenjo is that he liked to recess his works more. If you study these two kozuka at an angle, you will find the walls of the frame of the kozuka higher and the design set a fraction deeper. I am not sure if I have a picture of this, but will post the best one I can find. It should be attached to this reply.

[Curran]

And some other Kaga works. 

f/k are Kaga Kinko.  Lots of inlay work, and high polish almost as if it were finished with a painter's coat of gloss.

 

The gold menuki are mine. I like the myth behind these two well known characters.

The tsuba is not mine.

I've sold all my Kaga tsuba, kinda waiting for a really incredible one to come along. I would love one of the multi-butterfly examples.

 

 

Common to almost all of the Kaga Goto and Kaga Kinko works is a mix of gold, good to great shakudo, and silver.

Every one of these pieces has a fair bit of silver either obvious or not so obvious. Some of it is heavily oxidized, and I wouldn't dare to clean it.

 

 

 

[Infinite_Wisdumb]

Truly works of art @Curran

[Charlie C]

Thanks @Curran! The comparison is really interesting.

 

The kozukas are stunning. 金割継 is kind of common but with nanako on them is super rare. However, I prefer the kashira over these well-made kozukas - it brings one to the riverbank of Kanazawa. I can almost feel the breeze under moonlight on me blowing from 医王山 ...

[Mantis dude]

@Charlie C  I was just thinking after looking at all these papers online- is it perhaps possible that Kaga Goto would be considered a subset of Kaga Kinko and therefore they are assigning the most conservative answer to an item?   only thing I can think of, but it is pure conjecture on my part and I guess only way to get a real answer would be to contact the shinsa team/ organization?  My last thought on the topic

 

@Curran  - Love the pieces, especially the father/son kozukas- rare opportunity to study a family line

 

I have posted these before but figured it doesn't hurt to do it again.  From The Kaga Kinko Taikan a picture of the bottom page along with 2 tsuba I own- needless to say I liked the pieces in hand and thought it was fun to have a page collected (not the exact pieces in the book but obviously same design)

 

Closer Pics: