Question about Aoi listing

[YourBabyBjornBorg]

11 hours ago, Brano said:

This is how it should be measured
However, I have personal experience after purchasing a blade from a reputable Tokyo dealer that the declared figure for kasane was actually kasane measured on nakago

Real dimensions measured with a digital caliper
Motokasane 6.3 mm
Motokasane at shinogi 6.7 mm
Sakikasane 4.2 mm
Kasane at shinogi nakago 7.6 mm

 

Oh my! Katanahanbai/Maruhide Touken san mesured shinogi to shinogi kasane (shinogi-kasane/鎬重ね) and marked them as simple kasane? That's scandalous! I wonder what other reputable Japanese dealers do this......

[MEENag]

Swung and missed at two shops today. The first was small and did not have a lot of options. The second had a lot of items, but customer service wasn’t great. I think he was just hoping I would go away, but when I didn’t, he finally came to talk. He showed me a few swords that weren’t papered or had koshirae, even though that is what I requested. He spoke no English. As I was leaving he said to come back in a couple of hours when they would have an English speaker there. I had no availability to go back. I’ll see if I can make any Osaka shops work in our schedule tomorrow. 

[Sebuh]

best of luck 

don’t get discouraged, half the fun is in the hunt!

[MEENag]

I decided I was happy with the Chiyozuru blade at Aoi and have made the purchase. Thank you for your comments in this thread. 
 

[Rawa]

Chiyozoru was often ordered as gifts if I remember correctly. Definitely you should show us your catch.

[Lewis B]

This one

https://sword-auction.com/en/product/27099/as24845-katana-mumeichiyozurunbthk-hozon-token/

[Rawa]

Oh I had this one already saved

[Bosco]

On 6/18/2025 at 9:40 AM, MEENag said:

I decided I was happy with the Chiyozuru blade at Aoi and have made the purchase. Thank you for your comments in this thread. 
 

Righ now Aoi art has a much better Chiyozuru with better Koshirae up now. How much did you pay for that one ?

[Rawa]

Lets say it was same price range. But his have both kozuka and kogai. Look at boshi, hada. Definietly he bought better one, more active-alive. New one looks like typical milky way. Dunno if it wasnt even retemper. Both have suguha hamon - how foggy is newer with these kitae in kissaki. Also compare work of togishi basing on amount of nagashi [lines]

[Jussi Ekholm]

Please do not take this the wrong way. The Chiyozuru paper number 374464 is a nice sword.

 

However in my personal opinion the koshirae fitted to it is completely unrelated to it. In the pictures you see filled up hole, that was the original hole for the sword this tsuka was made for.

 

Also as I keep tracking swords, this same one was previously sold without koshirae. I am still travelling so I dont have access to all of my research. 

[Rawa]

@Jussi Ekholmwhich one you would pick knowing both are in same price?

[MEENag]

The one I bought was 950,000 yen. After it didn’t sell at auction, I considered offering 900,000 for it, but decided not to play games since I was happy with the sword and the price. 
I like that the new one has Tokubetsu Hozon papers, that it has bohi, and a more specific attribution.
I’m not a huge fan of either koshirae, though I’ve grown to like the koshirae on the one I bought more than I initially did. It has some interesting looking components, but as I mentioned in earlier posts, it doesn’t seem like it fits well in the pictures and I have doubts about it being Edo period (with very little knowledge to back it up). I certainly didn’t notice the filled hole that Jussi mentioned, and still am not sure I see it. It will be interesting to see how it fits with the blade in person since I handled the blade and koshirae separately in the shop. It won’t be displayed in the koshirae, so I’m not sure how much I care. The koshirae on the new one is a little boring to me, but I would probably grow to like it after spending money on it. 
One of my requirements was to pick my first sword in person during my visit to Japan so anything that came and went before I got there, or comes up after is moot.  We got back to Texas early this morning. If the new one was available when I visited the shop, it would have been on my viewing list and may have been the one I selected… it’s hard to say. Calling the koshirae equal and assuming I liked both when handling in person, the TH papers and presence of bohi would likely have been worth $1700 US more to me. 

[Jussi Ekholm]

Hopefully your family had a wonderful trip to Japan. 🤗

 

I do think the sword you bought was a nice one. Prices in yen have gone up so making comparisons to old prices even from few years ago is difficult. Also Echizen Rai / Chiyozuru / Chiyozuru Morihiro, etc. for me personally the attributions wont matter too much.

 

I could be mistaken for the koshirae too so my word is not granted as I dont at the moment have access to the old sale page and info. However as you said there are multiple really nice components. I personally really like rayskin saya and this one has an interesting one. Leather tsukamaki is also something I am liking a a lot.

 

I believe for your sword the koshirae parts are actually most likely Edo period parts that have been put together. Hopefully you will enjoy the sword for a long time and you have the happy memory of purchasing the sword on your family trip.

[MEENag]

Thanks for the comments Jussi, especially on the koshirae and components. 
My wife,  son (20), daughter  (17) and I had a wonderful trip to Japan. It’s remarkable how clean and safe feeling everywhere we visited was. People on the street generally did not acknowledge your presence, but most everybody we dealt with at shops, restaurants, hotels, etc were very friendly. It makes you wonder what impression America gives to visitors. I know I had a poor impression of facilities and people during our layover at LAX when we returned. 
We packed a lot into our 12ish days, so I didn’t have a ton of time to research Echizen Rai other than few google search links to info here on NMB, so I am excited to learn more. 
Waiting 5-7 weeks for the sword to arrive feels like forever, but it gives me time to plan my display, though I have other projects ahead of that in the queue. 
 

[Rawa]

There is plug closer to fuchi but imho koshirae looks great.

[Curran]

On 6/14/2025 at 9:38 AM, Bugyotsuji said:

Do you have Tamayama Meishito on your list?

About Us | 玉山名史刀

玉山名史刀 京都店 刀剣商／ホームメイト

 

PS They often keep their ground-floor shutters down for security reasons.

Good very old school multi generational shop.

4th gen now?

Several of you are giving very good advice.

 

So far, I agree.   Nagoya >> Kyoto > Tokyo

More shops in Tokyo here and there, but you sort of get that greasy used car lot feel from Aoi Arts. They are not as they were 20-30 years ago.

 

Some of the very very best, and a lot of the worst, are located in Tokyo.

@MEENag   good luck.  Though it may be confusing, the others are trying to help. It is a shame there isn't a strong central organized club in Texas these day.

Things shift, so you will have to rely on internet groups a bit more.

[Natichu]

3 hours ago, Curran said:

Good very old school multi generational shop.

4th gen now?

Several of you are giving very good advice.

 

So far, I agree.   Nagoya >> Kyoto > Tokyo

More shops in Tokyo here and there, but you sort of get that greasy used car lot feel from Aoi Arts. They are not as they were 20-30 years ago.

 

Some of the very very best, and a lot of the worst, are located in Tokyo.

@MEENag   good luck.  Though it may be confusing, the others are trying to help. It is a shame there isn't a strong central organized club in Texas these day.

Things shift, so you will have to rely on internet groups a bit more.

Any particular shops in Nagoya you'd recommend? 

[Gerry]

Aoi Art is definitely pairing up koshirae with blades to make them more appealing to Western collectors. In fact, I had previously purchased a daisho from them with a gorgeous set of Edo period mounts, only to find out that the blades in them were not original to the koshirae, and didn't fit exactly. In the case of daishos, they find blades to make the daisho koshirae more appealing.

 

I was in their shop recently deciding on whether to purchase a particular katana in shirasaya, and discussed options about having an antique koshirae for it. They walked me through the process of finding suitable koshirae parts, and the hardest step in the process was finding a suitable existing saya. I ultimately decided to send the sword off to have a custom koshirae made in Gifu.

[Curran]

8 hours ago, Natichu said:

Any particular shops in Nagoya you'd recommend? 

 

Sanmei with its retro site, not to different than when it came online 25 years ago.

https://www.sanmei.com/enter.html

This shop can be very hit or miss. Show you a clunker or two and then show you something very exceptional, possibly produced from the storage space under the couch on which you are sitting.

 

Also, just go to https://www.meihaku.jp/en/

and see what you find from there-

 

Or the Tokugawa Museum (in Nagoya) is always a classic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokugawa_Art_Museum

It has been a while since I was there, but discussion with them lead me to one or two local dealers nearly unknown. Got a great tsuba from one of them.

 

 

[Bosco]

19 hours ago, Gerry said:

Aoi Art is definitely pairing up koshirae with blades to make them more appealing to Western collectors. In fact, I had previously purchased a daisho from them with a gorgeous set of Edo period mounts, only to find out that the blades in them were not original to the koshirae, and didn't fit exactly. In the case of daishos, they find blades to make the daisho koshirae more appealing.

 

I was in their shop recently deciding on whether to purchase a particular katana in shirasaya, and discussed options about having an antique koshirae for it. They walked me through the process of finding suitable koshirae parts, and the hardest step in the process was finding a suitable existing saya. I ultimately decided to send the sword off to have a custom koshirae made in Gifu.

Hi Gerry, which one in Gifu can you share with me ? 

[Gerry]

6 minutes ago, Bosco said:

Hi Gerry, which one in Gifu can you share with me ? 

 

6 minutes ago, Bosco said:

Hi Gerry, which one in Gifu can you share with me ? 

Sure, I used Nosyudo in Gifu.

[MEENag]

Interestingly, the Kamakura blade that I started this thread with seems to have sold. I believe it was first listed 5/28/2024, so it sat for over a year. I wonder if someone reading this thread made the purchase. 

[Rawa]

Wasn't it muromachi [nanbokucho] era sword?

[MEENag]

The original one from the first post was Kamakura. The one I bought was Nanbokucho, but it was posted later in the thread. 

[GlassBucket]

So if anyone sees this, I’m the one who finally bought it. I found this thread on here after I already bought it and it’s already on its way to me. Did I make a mistake in buying it 😭 I spend like 8000 US dollars on it but even though I have no intention of ever selling this was the purchase a bad decision? I’m honestly a new katana enthusiast and don’t have nearly as much knowledge as you guys do so I think maybe I made a hasty decision. I rly loved the proportions of the sword and I rly wanted an antique nihonto with a koshirae and this fit what I was looking for. Lowkey looking for some reassurance since I can’t refund it and I sunk a large part of my extra money in this.