Help please with identification of dirk

[drb 1643]

Hi All, I was looking at Ohmura’s website and he has this listed as a naval cadet’s dirk. I always thought this was a forestry dirk. Can someone please help explain what is correct?

 Thank you very much for any clarification.

Tom

[Bruce Pennington]

Here is a forestry dirk

 

Discussed here: http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/Japanese-militaria/second-pattern-senior-forestry-officials-model-1903-a-646442-5/

[drb 1643]

Hi Bruce, 

Yes, the forestry dirks you pictured look just like the Cadet dirk that Ohmura has pictured. Is it possible that Ohmura is mistaken or are they extremely similar? Inquiring minds would like to know!

 Thank you all very much,

Tom

[Bruce Pennington]

Well, after some digging, Ohmura's site is the only source I can find that addresses the cadet dirk, and I can't tell any difference from it and the senior Foresters dirk, and the "possible second (1903) pattern Forestry dirks listed in Fuller's book. I'm going to post the question over on Warrelics and see if Nick Komiya comes up with anything. I'll update here if I get clarification.

[Jareth]

Here's Nick's post with the answer http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/Japanese-militaria/unraveling-mystery-unidentified-navy-dagger-design-728226/

[Bruce Pennington]

Here's Nick's post with the answer http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/Japanese-militaria/unraveling-mystery-unidentified-navy-dagger-design-728226/

And Nick's pictures (post #, match those of Ohmura. What I'm trying to determine, now, is how to distinquish between the senior foresters dirk and the cadet dirk. They seem very slight.

[Jareth]

Top of pommel has a few distinct differences

[drb 1643]

Thank you both for your help. The pictured dirk by Ohmura looks to me to have the same backstrap/pommel as the forestry dirk. The dirk that Jareth posted is definitely different. The post by Nick is excellent!

Thanks again,

Tom

[Bruce Pennington]

I agree! Many of the great reference books were written before the internet age, or before it grew into what it is today. We have been able to get access to records and resources, now, that weren't easily found when the books were written. I won't go so far as to say Ohmura-san was wrong on his "cadet" designation, but it is quite possible.

[Bruce Pennington]

Ok, the latest from our conversation with Nick Komiya at Warrelics:

 

Both dirks in my post #6 above are FORRESTRY dirks! Nick is convinced that both Ohmura and Fuller are incorrect on the dirks with backstraps and floral patterns. He says those are cadet dirks. The only forrestry dirks are the ones without floral patterns and are silver in color (Fuller's pattern 1)

 

An interesting discovery is that these dirks came originally without sakura on the menuki, but were added in a 1914 mod.

 

Link to conversation: http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/Japanese-militaria/navy-cadet-dirk-anyone-actually-seen-one-769657/