masakuni tanto

[Mark C]

Hi All,

 

I have a tanto that has a mei of "minamoto masakuni tsukuru kore".

 

I have been searching my limited library and the www for a comparison mei but haven't managed to find one

 

Can I please ask if anyone has a picture/info, could they please post or PM it.

 

Many thanks in advance.

 

Mark

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

Mark,

 

there are several Masakuni since koto to gendai; find one without seeing the mei(nakago/blade) is really difficult.

[Mark C]

Hi Jacques and all,

 

Sorry, I did mean to attach a pic, anyways here's the pic of the nakago.

 

Regards

 

Mark

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

Sorry Mark,

 

I don't find this one in my library

[paulb]

Hi Mark,

I had this sword in my collection for a some years. I found 1 smith who signed this way in Hawley working around 1630s. But thats all I found. The workmanship looked older than that to me and after a lot of time with it I came the conclusion it was made earlier possibly the 1400s and the mei was added later.

Sorry not to be much help but I hope you will get a lot from the sword, I certainly enjoyed studying it over a long time.

regards

Paul

[Mark C]

Hi Jacques and Paul,

 

Thanks for the help.

 

Paul - Like you, I find this little blade most interesting, ito suguha hamon, itame nagare hada.

When you say you think the mei was added later, does this make it gimei ??

 

I think I will put this in for the November UK Shinsa.

 

Again, many thanks

 

Regards

 

Mark

[Guest nickn]

ato mei?

[Mark C]

Thanks Nick,

 

I wonder if the NTHK would clasify it as ato mei (if indeed they thought it to be a Masakuni ) or pink it ??

 

Regards

 

Mark

[paulb]

I think if it was ato mei they would pink slip it but tell you who they thought made it (at least school and period) I am putting in a tachi which I am 99.999% sure is gimei but I can at least get the judges thoughts as to what it realy is. Who knows maybe the 0.001% chance is right and it is sho-shin!!

[george trotter]

Hi Mark,

Although I can only go on the Pic of your Masakuni tanto nakago, I feel that your inclination to go back to shinto or koto times does not seem to be supported by the tang details. I feel that the indications are for Gendaito. The tang shape, and sujikai filemarks with Kesho indicate much later than you suggested. This tang shape and filemarks and kesho remind me of the Osaka Okishiba group who worked from a long line of Yamashiro Heianjo smiths into modern times. I have seen swords by their Masatsugu, and Yoshisada, both of whom have these characteristics and also signed Minamoto. Their later smith working into recent times (WWII and later) was Masakuni Hawley MAS416. I checked your mei against his in TK 555 but it is different in that the Masakuni in TK is a cursive style, not "square" like yours, but Minamoto is virtually identical. This is only my opinion and I am no expert, but maybe you could look at the Okishiba Masakuni references above and in Ono 1977 p.100 and check the similarities and differences...I do think the tang says look in more recent times...there are other Masakuni possibilities 1840-1945.

Hope this doesn't

[george trotter]

Hi mark...oops, I hit submit before i finished the message...as I was saying, I hope I am not leading you way off track, I am only going on the tang details.

regards,

George Trotter.

[george trotter]

Mark,

I found a further reference to Okishiba Minamoto Masakuni in Gendai Toko Meikan, Ono 1971 p.130, which shows his oshigata for reference (maybe one of the learned could put it up for you). It shows the tang shape, sujikai/kesho filemarks and gives a clear "Minamoto" for comparison. I think that rather than an atomei as you surmise, the mei actually is contemporary with the age of the tang.

Regards,

George.

PS it will be interesting to see what the shinsa tells you.

By the way, as I can't see the blade (not very good on tantos anyway), you might find it helpful to know that the two ONO books say this Masakuni worked in Yamashiro, Sagami and Yamato styles.

[paulb]

Hi George,

Having had the advantage of seeing the whole blade (for a number of years) I would be extremely surprised if this was a modern piece. Everything about the blade looks koto or early Shinto, the hada, hamon et al just dont relate to gendaito. However there is trhe possibility that the nakago was refinsied at some time . their is a patch just above the mei which shows considerable age and is not in keeping with the crispness or colour of the nakago around the mei, hence the view it was applied later.

As said above the comments on age are based on the hada and hamon and I have dug up some additional images from when I had the sword.

See what you think.

[george trotter]

Hi Mark,

Yes I do see what you mean...the colour of metal and the prominent hada do not tally with the Gendai Okishiba's I have seen...I am not too good on tanto kantei...Soshu style?. The nakago is a bit deceptive isn't it...hmmm...I can see why you have had difficulty placing it in kantei.

Interesting sword. I'll keep an eye out for further reports from you.

Regards

[Mark C]

Hi All,

 

I cant thank you all enough and as a mere beginner, this Tanto has had me pulling what little hair I have, out with the hada, hamon contradicting nakago condition.

 

I was going to put the other photo's I have but Paul beat me to it, and I have to give him the credit for taking them in the first place.

 

I will hit the books again tonight as I have a little more info, It's only 5 weeks to wait and I will post results, if people are interested.

 

Again, thanks

 

Regards

 

Mark