Newbie To Swords Needs Help : 2 Swords

[rwallin]

While I'm not a big sword collector at all, I do have a deep interest in Japanese and Chinese history and culture. Recently I've been offered 2 Japanese swords for purchase.

 

Here's the story, They belonged to the gentleman's father who shipped them back in a box marked underwear during WWII. His mother, who "fought" the Japanese until she passed away recently at the age of 90, kept them after her husband had passed but did not think enough of them to take proper care.

 

All that being said be warned that the pictures are not a pretty sight.

 

My initial goal here is to determine what the value of these may be in the condition they are in and if they would be worth trying to restore (although that would probably be out of my price range at the moment). Also any information on the historical aspect would be most beneficial as well.

 

While the owner allowed me the opportunity to take the pictures I simply do not have the luxury of taking the time to research these 2 items and hoping that the wealth of knowledge on this message board will come to my rescue.

 

I took lots of pictures that can been seen here

http://www.belmontdesignagency.com/photos/

 

the A Sword appears to be a dress type sword. Has not been sharpened

 

the B Sword appears to be a more traditional sword that I've seen with the limited time in researching. looks to have been originally sharpened.

 

 

I can not find a single mark on either of the 2 swords.

 

Thanks so much in advance.

Rodney

[Stephen]

Hi Rodney

 

here is a link for you to check which type you have.

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/military.htm

[Brian]

Rodney,

The first one is one of the military mass produced swords. Don't have time to look it up now, but you should find it in the links pages or online. I'll take a look tonight when i get home. Value only to a militaria collector, as the blade is machine made.

 

The second is in 1944 pattern mounts, and has the leather tsuka cover on it. These usually have mass produced blades, but you do find the occasional handmade blade in those mounts. Without seeing any signature under the handle however, there is no way of telling what the blade is like under all that rust.

Is that all corrosion and not any grease at all? If so, it is in a really bad state, and you need to hit that blade fast with lots of oil and cloth, and keep doing it until as much rust as possible is gone. Either you will have a slightly stained and lighty pitted blade under the rust, or a hugely pitted blade that is a total write-off. Pity it was allowed to get to that point.

Chances are both are mass produced blades that will only be of interest to militaria collectors, but i would have that tang of the 1944 pattern checked out anyways, and post a pic once you have removed as much rust as you can (NOTE - oil and maybe very fine steelwool ONLY. NO sandpaper, grinder, wire brush etc)

 

Brian

[rwallin]

Thanks guys,

 

Couple of questions.

1. As they are, from what you can see, what would these swords value be and would they be worth buying at all for a non-collector of swords?

2. Is getting to the tang something I can do without causing any further damage to the blade?

 

Brian, that is pretty much all rust you see on the blade and it is a shame.

[rwallin]

please correct me if I'm wrong but it looks like the saber is an army parade saber. http://home.earthlink.net/%7Esteinrl/civilian.htm

 

Just looked on ebay and they seem to sell between 100-200. those did not have a family crest on the back of the hilt though. Is there a place to find out about the family crest? The family crest on the sword in the pictures appears to be a 3 petal ?.

 

Looks like the crest is Katabami.

[Brian]

Yep, looks like an army parade saber to me. With the mon, I expect it to be valued around $250-350 or so at a guess.

The 1944 pattern Gunto needs to have the wooden peg in the handle removed and the handle slipped off. However you need to know what you are doing, as it may be tight, may even have 2 pegs, and you don't want to damage the leather cover.

Check this page for some info and links: http://www.geocities.com/alchemyst/faq.htm

Value on it is very difficult I expect, especially in that condition. A couple of hundred dollars? Maybe $300 to someone who likes taking a risk

Clean off as much rust as you can (without abrasives) and you will know how badly it is pitted. If not too bad, you can add some $'s to the value. DON'T clean the tang/nakago at all of any rust. It is the one area that is left alone.

If I were you, I wouldn't bother purchasing them unless you got them cheap. Maybe $400 for both. And then they would just be militaria memorabilia and not really significant as Japanese collectibles. Not really our focus here, unless that Gunto does turn out to be hand forged (unlikely)

 

Brian

[Stephen]

Brian has got it down to a T maybe a tad high with the saber due to condition, one long shot late war mount 44 type did have a few Nagamitsus and Emura's more the former than the latter. its worth a look. Be sure to take note like Brian said they often had two holes. thick active rust can be bunrished off with a hard edge steel. you might not want to do that PM me for more info, if its flaky a tapping of wood mallet will release some, id go with the oil and rags for a start. If some of its gummy use opps cleaner and rags. good luck