Learned Some Or Still In The Woods? And Flying Hermits

[raynor]

Hi all, I've been looking online at items and came across a pair of ~38mm menuki described as cast copper with inlay. I cannot see any inlay, the gold appears painted on but I do see chisel marks so it is probably not a cast piece or am I missing something?

Also does the dark patina if copper mean shakudo here or something else?

 

Regardless I enjoy the amount of personality given to the tiny metal man's face. Looking to learn.

 

 

 

[John A Stuart]

Painted on is apt. Mercury gilding in essence is painted on before firing. John

[raynor]

Thanks John, made me look closer and gilding makes sense as there's no paint smudges in any tiny chisel marks, just clean metal changing color.

[ROKUJURO]

Omar,

the underside of the MENUKI says it all!

[raynor]

Good call, but the photo available is quite blurry. I cannot yet with my beginner mind tell much from it, but I'm sure others can. 

[ROKUJURO]

The photo is so bad that it must have been made on purpose like that!

[Tanto54]

Hi Omar,

 

The pictures are too fuzzy to tell for sure, but I do believe that I see signs of modern casting.  The "chisel marks" that you see on this piece could easily be part of the casting.  Most importantly, the quality of this piece is really quite low.  You can find much better (and faces with more charm and character) and still cheaply.  For example, if you really just like fine work, but don't want to spend the money, you can get orphaned menuki.  Some of the ones on the NMB are really very nice.  Also, you can find other items like tobacco pouch claps that look like menuki and were made by the same guys who made menuki at around 20% of the price.

 

These are not mine (just random menuki found on the Internet), but this is the level of quality you should be looking for IMO (either singly if you can't afford more, or by foregoing three low quality menuki to buy something much better).

 

[raynor]

Hi George,

 

No worries, I know better (largely thanks to this very forum) then to purchase the piece shown even tho I like the motif. If I were to purchase something in the realm of Nihonto I would never use ebay, where the photos are from.

 

So far I find the shopping experience on this very board to be much safer and rewarding when it comes to item quality. Thanks for the tip tho, one day I will probably look for some menuki as there really is no substitute to seeing things in hand to learn.

[TETSUGENDO]

  Omar, here's a stunning pair, If available I would recommend them without reservation, only problem being the pricetag of several thousand dollars...most probably ditto on the ones George posted (if genuine).  High grade fittings signed by an important maker are very costly, not many collect at this level.  There are many attractive pieces available at a much more modest price.  BTW, I wouldn't make a call on a picture of such poor quality.

 

-S-

[Tanto54]

Dear Steven,

 

Any reason to believe the menuki that I posted are not "genuine"?  Just like swords, you should buy quality not names...  (by the way, if you have any that look like that, whether genuine or not, please sell them to me....)

[raynor]

Those are indeed masterpieces. Very good attention to details. Not into dropping more then triple digits on fittings tho, I reserve that for actual blades or my wife would have my head.. never mind her yearly shoe and hairdresser budgets.. could have a kokuho by now.

[Tanto54]

Dear Omar,

 

That was exactly my point - you can find very nice menuki (much better than the ones you posted) for not much money.  In addition, if you look carefully, you can find great quality (and even masterpieces) for several hundred if you are willing to take orphans or other kanagu (metal fittings like tobacco pouch claps, etc.).

[TETSUGENDO]

George,

 

One should always buy the workmanship and not the name.  In this instance your birds appear to be high end Ishiguro school pieces which are generally signed.  They appear to be real but not knowing the provenance, I always reserve some doubt...although they do appear convincing and very familiar.  BTW, if your interested in pieces that 'look' the part reproduction of menuki of this school seem in good supply these days.  I have seen several different bird and bird group models available in a variety of finishes on line....they would easily fool the novice or the careless optimist.  They are being presented as genuine....the fakers are working overtime.  The best place to buy the real thing is at one of the major auction houses, for reasons which should be obvious.

 

Cheers,

   -S-