your help sought identifying mon

[Ford Hallam]

Gentlemen,

 

some of you may have been following the recent discussion on some motif's on a particular Yoshino style tsuba, over on The Tosogu Forum; here's the link to the thread

 

I thought we might be able to learn a little more about this tsuba if we were able to identify the mon in question and see if there appears to be any sort of association suggested by this group. The "mon" in the red square is the "odd one out" in my opinion, but if someone does find it listed as a kamon, before say 1575, It would help resolve part of the puzzle.

 

 

 

any and all assistance will be appreciated.

 

Thanks and regards,

 

Ford

[nagamaki - Franco]

http://www.otomiya.com/kamon/kibutsu/kurusu.htm

 

for what little it may be worth .....

[John A Stuart]

Hi Ford, The middle mon on the linked page that resembles the one on your tsuba is in the book, Family Crests of Japan and titled 'flower cross'. Kurusu from the Portugese kruz. It does not mention a specific family but refers to it as being Christian and disappeared after the Tokugawa banned the faith. John

[Ford Hallam]

Hi John, Franco,

 

thanks for the heads up on that one. I'm more interested in the other families and looking for the connection. What is an interesting possibility is the adoption of this Portuguese badge and it evolving to the form you've shown. The fact that it was Christian is useful to know too.

 

thanks again, ford

[Martin]

Hi John & Franco,

 

I guess that´s what we already found out ;o)

http://www.nihontokanjipages.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=792#p792

 

cheers,

[Bugyotsuji]

http://www.otomiya.com/kamon/kibutsu/kurusu.htm

 

for what little it may be worth .....

 

Franco, your link mentions two families that used versions of the 'kurusu' Mon:

 

In the book xx on p. 115 there is a half page of cross symbols, and an explanation that they came from three sources. Christian families in the Sengoku period who used cross Mon were Takayama, Naito, Konishi (as above), Ikeda, Nakagawa, Itami, Nose, Hiraoka, Tachibana, Arima.

 

A cross as a form of talisman was used by Shimazu Tadahisa on his armour before the advent of Christianity, two hundred years before Xavier came to Japan, it says. And a form of cross can be seen in picture scrolls depicting the Mongol invasions.

 

On p. 76 of the same book it illustrates a Kurusu similar to the one on the Tsuba above and in Franco's link, brought by Xavier in 1549 which became very popular and was used by all classes of people from peasant to Daimyo until the suppression. They were concentrated in the Settsu area, it says. Again the same family names are given, and it suggests that it was a form of Mon. Tachibana and Arima were 'from Chikugo', it adds.

 

PS Recently I came into possession of a black cross on a white background on a very old Nobori-bata for a footsoldier. It should be described as Ken-juji I should imagine, as it's crossed blades, but I cannot find any other examples of it yet. I might post this question elsewhere on the site