info on tsuba

[Guest nickn]

please could someone give me some info on these tsuba

[Guest nickn]

2

[Guest nickn]

3

[Guest nickn]

4

[Guest nickn]

5

[Guest reinhard]

I don't know if you're familiar with the term 08/15. Are these your Tsuba?

 

reinhard

[Ford Hallam]

Hi Nick,

 

the first one looks like a cast copy to my eyes. It lacks any real definition and seems far too homogeneous in terms of texture.

 

The second one is, as Reinhard suggests, fairly generic, both in terms of design and workmanship. Judging by the nunome and the basic nature of the carving I'd place it at right at the end of the Edo period. Perhaps a bit of Choshu influence still in evidence.

 

regards, Ford

[Guest nickn]

08/15 i have no idea what that means

the first tsuba is not cast it came on a shinto wakizashi and was very rusty so i gave it to a well known uk dealer to give to a tsuba restorer ,again in the uk, and this is how it came back! before it was "restored" you could see the bones on the plate and around the edge

[Guest nickn]

the first tsuba has shakudo? applied eyes

[Ford Hallam]

the first tsuba is not cast it came on a shinto wakizashi and was very rusty so i gave it to a well known uk dealer to give to a tsuba restorer ,again in the uk, and this is how it came back! before it was "restored" you could see the bones on the plate and around the edge

 

my apologies...it seemed to me that the engraved lines for instance, had odd irregularities in them which would be indicative of a repro casting. Also, the "seki-gane" at the top of the nakago-ana ( and the bottom actually ) seems to be part of the plate and not copper as one would expect. there is also a suspicious ( to my eyes ) seam or mould line down the left hand side of the nakago-ana. I might be worth bearing in mind though, that if the original had bones visible then it would stand to reason that a mould taken from it would replicate them too.

 

But, that's only my opinion, based on what I can make out from a, slightly out of focus, photo.

[Stephen]

for all who want to know but dont want to look stupid...what is 08/15???

[Guest nickn]

the casting line is an photopraphic illusion caused be a shadow and it has no seki-gane only punch marks

sorry for my poor photographs

[Guest nickn]

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[Ford Hallam]

here you go Stephen; the meaning of 08/15

 

and Nick, here's an image of a cast steel repro tsuba from the ubiquitous Mr Lohman for comparison with yours. I'm sure you can see why I have the opinion I do.

 

 

The enlargements you've posted don't show any copper seki-gane, as you say. That's my point; although you can clearly see the shape of the sekigane ( as they appear on the original ) in this casting they have been reproduced as part of the tsuba and thus are of the same material.

 

As an aside, it might be worthwhile checking these repro sites from time to time. I was quite shocked to see the array of copies available. Any of which might fool the uninitiated. It's a pity these are not in some way marked to show them up for what they are.

[Stephen]

Thanks Ford

 

the rest of the story

 

08/15 (Null-acht-fünfzehn) being used like an adjective to denote something 'standardized', unremarkable or generic.

[Guest nickn]

ford lohmans tsuba is nothing like mine for a start the dragon is male not female

black bead ,shakudo?, eyes on a modern cast fake? older cast fake? eyes put on afterwards?

what looks like seki-ana is again an illusion caused by the half moon tool used to close up the ana and the raised area to the left is not raised

i have looked in all the ana and and around the mimi there are no casting marks ,which i guess lohmans would have?

i accept it is generic and of no great importance but in hand i dont think its a "modern" a cast fake

but then dont go out of my way to buy tsuba nearly all the ones i have ,over one hundred, came mounted on a swords so i have little knowledge

[John A Stuart]

Fred Lohmans tsuba have his name written on the seppa dai. His can't be mistaken as original like some others. Although a businessman, he isn't out to deceive with his fittings. John

[Ford Hallam]

Thanks for that info John,

I've not seen any in hand so it's good to know that this is the case.

 

Nick, I didn't post that example to suggest it was a copy of yours, nor did the sex of the dragon occur to me , it was merely to suggest some similarity in general appearance of the metal. The cast sekigane being part of that.

 

The seam, or casting lines, you refer to are of course the easiest tell-tale clue of casting to remove. It would be the first thing a reasonably competent craftsman would attend to. Their absence is not a certain indicator that a piece is not cast at all.

 

Incidentally, one of your close ups, showing the bottom of the nakago ana, seems to reveal a pretty sharp, and newish, bit of filing...have you reworked this area?

 

 

In any case, I think we will just have to "agree to disagree" on this one. You asked for opinions, I offered mine...for what it's worth, to you, or anyone else reading this. I can't do any more, or be any fairer than that.

 

Regards, Ford

[Guest nickn]

you are right ford i should not ask for oppinions if i cannot accept the answers given

i was jokeing about the dragon i did got your point

yes i filed the bottom edge to fit to a sword

[Eric H]

for all who want to know but dont want to look stupid...what is 08/15???

 

08/15 is a saying in german : something ordinary, average, nothing in particular.

 

Eric