New to the Forum, with a couple blades

[Guest Simon Rowson]

Max wrote:

@ Simon: Simon, those are not Chinese. I don't want to sound harsh but you shouldn't dismiss swords until you are pretty confident about your decision.

You don't sound harsh Max but I was basing my opinion (and I did clearly state that it was only my "initial impression") on a very poor photo which seemed to show the tsuka ito twisting in the same direction - usually a dead giveaway for a Chinese repro.

 

I am never afraid to admit when I am completely wrong (unlike some people on this forum ) and both of these swords now appear to be genuine to me.

 

Simon

[Guest reinhard]

I owe you an explanation:

 

- Looking at the saya of the "regular" (non-GunTo) katana: This is not what Japanese lacquerware looks like. The pattern is too regular and poorly executed. It looks as if it was done with a punch-mark by someone not particularily interested in what he's doing. BTW I wonder why the tip of the nakago is peeping out from the broken-off end of the saya?

- The shape of the tip of one of the blades looks odd. The shinogi-ji is broadening towards the yokote-area and the yokote is missing. The sharp angles of shinogi-ji, ko-shinogi and yokote, usually associated with NihonTo, are missing. This could be explained by amateur attempt of polishing

- The yasurime of the Gunto look strange (to be polite)

- The habaki of the regular sword does not fit the blade

- The rim of the "regular" sword's tsuba looks new

 

The "thunderbolt"-remark was a sarkastic reference to another thread, where I was adressed more or less personally. It's not the kind of pathos I prefer.

 

reinhard

[Guido]

Looking at the saya of the "regular" (non-GunTo) katana: This is not what Japanese lacquerware looks like. The pattern is too regular and poorly executed. It looks as if it was done with a punch-mark by someone not particularily interested in what he's doing. BTW I wonder why the tip of the nakago is peeping out from the broken-off end of the saya?

FWIW, I've seen Japanese lacquerwork like that before (needless to say, usually not associated with high class Koshirae ). It also looks to me like the Kojiri is missing, not the Nakago protuding.

 

My two Euro Cents (which are worth considerably more than Milt's US $ Cents :D): probably of Japanese origin, but miss-(mix)-matched and in a condition that doesn't make it exactly collectable.

[Guest nickn]

again there is nothing wrong with these swords

the kojiri is missing from the end of the saya the laquer late 19th century work

the kissaki looks to have been badley polished and or re-shaped

and the nakago on the gunto looks typical for this type of late war machine made blade

[Guest nickn]

i do agree that the mimi has been added to the tsuba

[Stephen]

and that should about wrap it up on these two blades, it would serve us better to talk about Peters Omi no Kami than belabor the point of these two. any one second the motion?

[Guest reinhard]

I've seen Japanese lacquerwork like that before

 

There was a Swiss merchant in Yokohama named Henri Spörry, doing business during the end of Bakumatsu and later. He collected, amongst objects of art, simple objects for everyday use. Tools of craftsmen, baskets, kitchen tools, cheap lacquerware, stuff like that. It is stunning to see how refined the sense of beauty in design and the perfection of craftsmanship were, applied to such unimportant objects for everyday use. This sense for beauty, aesthetics and design was once part of Japanese culture, permeating it fully. There was a change soon after, when Japanese started to make objects for export. When saying "Japanese craftsmanship (or lacquerware)" I'm referring to "old Nippon", which is not quite correct, technically spoken.

 

However I don't think any Samurai prior to the Haitorei would have dared to walked the streets with a saya like this.

 

reinhard

[Brian]

Well..obviously someone did, whether prior or post haitorei.

Overall impression isn't too bad either. Not great work by any means, but I have seen worse. Not all swords were carried by samurai of course, there were probably more merchants and others during those later times that owned them, and if you look at the fashions outside nowdays, it is all too obvious how tastes vary.

 

As Stephen said, without anything new and revealing to add to the swords, I consider this one done.

Reinhard, a new topic about this Henri Spörry might be an interesting thread, sounds like an interesting guy.

 

Brian

[Guest reinhard]

Hi Brian,

This is somewhat off topic and probably not enough material to start a new thread, but for those interested in the subject, I'll give a short notice.

 

Spörry (who died 1925) was sent to Japan by a silk-trading company. He spent seven years in Yokohama and during this time he started investigating Japanese craftsmanship. This was part of a side-job. The botanist Carl Schröter asked him to collect samples of raw material, objects and notes about the use of bamboo. It started as a favour and became a passion. He collected and studied objects neglected by other traders such as cages for insects, all kind of tools and everyday objects. At present there is no collection of this kind in Japan as complete as this one. A small part of it was displayed four years ago at the ethnographical museum in Zürich, Switzerland. It gave me, once more, a notion of the now lost sense of beauty and demand for perfection permeating old Japan's society.

Spörry's collection is stored in the Historisches Museum Bern at present, together with the swords he brought with him. Unfamiliar with the subject but lucky of being at the right spot at the right time, he brought with him (amongst many minor, even poor blades) a tachi with a niji-mei NAOTSUGU (second generation Bitchu-Aoe), a signed and dated wakizashi by Oei-Bizen YASUMITSU and a most outstanding blade by Koyama MUNETSUGU.

 

reinhard

 

the picture added depicts a cage for cicada in the shape of a fan. The picture might look like nothing special but seeing it in nature, it blows your mind, for this was a common, everyday object.