Gendai Kiyomaro

[seattle1]

Hello:

 I was just browsing through my copy of Japanese Swords in Dutch Collections (2003),  written by the late and very much admired Han Bing Siong, and noted the most interesting comment in his discussion of Yoshihara Kuniie, not the contemporary Kuniie, but his much respected grandfather. Mr. Han writes:

  "This blade (referring to a Kuniie made in 1942) was part of the exhibition organized in honour of Ogasawara Nobuo sensei on 16 November 1982 in the National Museum for Cultural Anthropology in Leyden. According to the sensei, this smith succeeded in making such fine blades, that occasionally they were sold as blades made by the famous Kiyomaro."

 Ogasawara sensei was no lightweight, he being an extensively published sword scholar and one time head of the sword department at the Tokyo National Museum in Ueno Park. He should know of what he speaks.

 For those not so familiar with the "grandfather Kuniie", he was initially a tool maker and in 1932 became a student of the Nipponto Tanren Denshusho of Kunihara Hikosaburo where Kasama Shigetsugu was the instructor. The late Yoshihara Koen sensei speculated that Kuniie was a very fast study because of his tool making background, and at least one Yushu Saku certificate was issued to Kuniie when Koen headed the NTHK. In 1935 he became a smith, like Shigetsugu, on the estate of Toyama Mitsuru, a very influential ultra nationalist and a leading figure in the Black Dragon Society. In 1938 he became a swordsmith for the Army. I believe that many of the "star stamped" gendaito seen were the ones thus approved by Kuniie. He passed away in 1970.

 Anyway the observation by Ogasawara is really remarkable. I would guess that Kuniie would not be a direct participant in such faking, but perhaps some of his signed blades were "re-labeled", or perhaps some not as yet signed by Kuniie were diverted without his knowledge.

 We all know of the practice of some of the great smiths of the early Meiji times making convincing fakes of older blades, and I now wonder how common that was during later gendai times, or perhaps even today?

 Arnold F.

 

[christianmalterre]

very common...i do tend to say least...

 

no difference to todays!

 

(one has to know...or fails!- very simple indeed- not?)

 

Christian

[SwordGuyJoe]

I wouldn't write off Yoshihara-San knowingly participating in this practice, as his teacher (Kasama Shigetsugu) and his fellow student (Tsukamoto Okimasa) both are known to have made gimei blades by famous smiths. Not saying he did or he didn't, just that the chance is outside the realm of possibility.

[seattle1]

Hello:

 Well the post wasn't meant to open the question of Kuniie's integrity, or that of any other particular smith for that matter, but merely to point out the extreme spread between a Yoshihara Kuniie sword's value and what would have been or is fetched for a Kiyomaro who is head and shoulders at the extreme of shinshinto sword values by contemporary measure. Whoever bought those Kiyomaro's were hardly sword novices one can assume.

 Arnold F.

[SwordGuyJoe]

I don't think of it as a negative thing. Before and after the war, it was extremely hard for a smith to make a living. Talented smiths had to resort to other options to make a living and support their family. If faced between making excellent swords w/ a false signature and providing a substandard life for their loved ones, it - to me - is no question what the right thing to do for them is.

[Ken-Hawaii]

It's not a lot easier for tosho, even today.

 

Ken

 

[SwordGuyJoe]

Agreed.

[w.y.chan]

You mean like this one?

 

 

 

Wah

[SwordGuyJoe]

<delete> I didn't actually open the pic. Yes. Probably something exactly like that.