Nco Type 95 Shin Gunto Blade Manufacturing?

[Mark58]

Every time anyone refers to the type 95 blade it is always said to be "machine" made?

 

I would very much like to know what is really known from source material about the manufacture of these blades.

 

Is there any real info out there? 

[SwordGuyJoe]

Have you looked at this page?

 

http://ohmura-study.net/791.html

[Mark58]

Have you looked at this page?

 

http://ohmura-study.net/791.html

Yes I have, and there is nothing in the English worded text that describes the manufacturing of the type 95 blade.Possibly in the Japanese text there is something?

[lonely panet]

check out Jim Dawson's book.

 

but I would imagine that the Japanese wouldn't have bothered retaining much about this model. they were most likely made in simular manner to the type 32's.

western mill steal, machine stamped blank's, then shaped,grooved and basic edges applied, all by machine's,

 

then hand assembled,

[Mark58]

check out Jim Dawson's book.

 

but I would imagine that the Japanese wouldn't have bothered retaining much about this model. they were most likely made in simular manner to the type 32's.

western mill steal, machine stamped blank's, then shaped,grooved and basic edges applied, all by machine's,

 

then hand assembled,

The fact that on the last iteration at the end of the war of the type 95 blade on which the bohi is omitted to me suggests these blades were not drop forged,but more likely 'hand' forged with power hammers from 'mill' steel bar.

 

The omission of the bohi on the last blades was obviously a time and cost saving measure and would have not taken place had the blades been simply "stamped" out...

 

It seems to me the constant repeating of "machine made" is claimed in place of genuine knowledge,hence my question.

 

I don't yet have Jim Dawson's book,by the way, possibly you could quote the relevant paragraph if you have a copy?  

[lonely panet]

I think your confussing the type 95 nco's sword with the LATE WAR issued ncos sword.

 

they are 2 vary different swords. late war issued swords are on the whole 99.59% were junk. poorly made.

and you maybe very well be correct on that fact, "forged with power hammers" due to the poor and uneven shapes encountered.

 

The type 95 ncos sword is machine made balde. if you doubt this just get 10 line them up and try and find a different in the blades?

[Mark58]

I think your confussing the type 95 nco's sword with the LATE WAR issued ncos sword.

 

they are 2 vary different swords. late war issued swords are on the whole 99.59% were junk. poorly made.

and you maybe very well be correct on that fact, "forged with power hammers" due to the poor and uneven shapes encountered.

 

The type 95 ncos sword is machine made balde. if you doubt this just get 10 line them up and try and find a different in the blades?

 

Thanks for your reply.No confusion just comparison, it seems to me that if the type 95 with bohi was stamped out etc then there would have been no need to cheapen it towards the end of the war.The stamping process being cheap and efficient enough?

 

Ohmura states that these blades differ enough on the type 95 with bohi to require that each scabbard was made specifically to fit each blade.He also says these blades were "machine forged" and "oil quenched"? Kind of vague I think!

 

Personally I don't have ten blades to line up to compare,but I do have four,though presently only one is with me where I am,but there is sufficient lack of precision and symmetry in the manufacture of the blade to make me question that it was made by precision machinery.

 

I have asked this same question on other forums out of a real interest to know exactly how they were made and so far to no avail.

[Johnny Barracuda]

Hello,

 

The Fuller and Gregory book is verry detailed on the various ways military blades were made, from the most traditional one to the most machine-made one, with all the intermediary methods.

 

Perhaps someone on the NMB can scan the relevant pages for you. My book is at home and my scanner at the office, so it is a bit complicated for me.

[lonely panet]

the F&G books are some what out dated and incorrect on some topics.

 

Jim Dawsons books are better

[Mark58]

This is an excerpt from Fuller and Gregory's book that was kindly posted in response to the same question from me on another forum.

 

 http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/attachments/Japanese-militaria/904503d1447665834t-nco-type-95-blade-question-image.jpg

 

A little sketchy and one has to take them at their word...

 

If someone could scan the relevant pages from the Dawson book I would be very appreciative. 

[Johnny Barracuda]

the F&G books are some what out dated and incorrect on some topics.

 

Jim Dawsons books are better

 

Well, I only partly agree with you. While Dawson's Cyclopedia edition had fantastic colour pictures, especially on rare swords, I still think that F&G's text is more detailed, although, as you say, it can be outdated on some aspects (for example, on some sword knots).

 

On the other hand, Dawson's book is a bit light on the description of military swordmaking techniques, where F&G are abundant and rather comprehensive.

[lonely panet]

may It be noted the incorrect labelling of POLICE ISSUED SWORDS as GENERAL GRADE, pages 17,18

the incorrect ID of a chinese army sword as a cavalry troopers sword page24 just of the top of my head. in the first book.

 

 

and open the can of worms on aonther subject, ko isshin mantetsu? some rated as gendai?

[Stegel]

Hamfish,

perhaps you should refer to the second book by F&G......much more detail and info from the first 1986 edition which was about the only info you could get back then.

Also on pg24, i think you have not read correctly the descriptions of the plates shown, as i did not interpret them the way you described.

Ern

 

The newer book is the 1996 editon, out of print and getting harder to find though.

I have looked and cannot find the reference you make to mantetsu/gendai, in the first book....

[Johnny Barracuda]

I was of course referring to the 1996 F&G book titled "Japanese Military and Civil Swords and Dirks", a copy of which is currently proposed by an ABEbooks bookshop for $138, which is a good price, to my opinion (http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=16150895953&searchurl=bi%3D0%26ds%3D30%26sts%3Dt%26bx%3Doff%26sortby%3D17%26kn%3Dsword%26an%3Dfuller%2520gregory%26recentlyadded%3Dall).