Tsuba Mei Help

[YOJIMBO]

Hello

 

I dare to ask for help in identifying signature.

Thank you all.

[Guido]

山城國伏見住

金家

[Brian]

As Guido said.

This is one of the more common of schools, using this name of a famous maker. Their work is all similar to this piece.

What he gave you will get you to the answer easily.

[YOJIMBO]

Thank you very much.

But what does it mean 山城 國 伏 見 住

金 家  ???

 

Does it have any value ?

[Jean]

金= kane or kin

家= iye

 

So you have to look for a tsuba maker/school who comes by the name of Kaneiye or Kiniye. Just google the name.

 

Time for you to buy a few books on tsuba and learn some basic kanji

 

http://www.jssus.org/nkp/index.html

[Brian]

Kaneie is one of the most famous of all tsuba makers. Yours is by a group of makers that worked in his style, but obviously mass produced them and signed this way. Google those kanji for LOTS of examples.

It has the value of any average tsuba....maybe $150 or so at a guess.

[Jean]

You are spoiling the fun Brian

[Guido]

家= iye

 

ie いえ, not iye いゑ

[Jean]

Sorry Guido, I took it from the Nihonto kanji pages site: 家: Iye

[YOJIMBO]

山城國伏見住

金家 

 

google translator : Yamashiro country Fushimi living

Gold home ???

[Guido]

Sorry Guido, I took it from the Nihonto kanji pages site: 家: Iye

 

Well, looks like Rich made a mistake.

 

https://kotobank.jp/word/%E5%AE%B6-29803#E5.A4.A7.E8.BE.9E.E6.9E.97.20.E7.AC.AC.E4.B8.89.E7.89.88

[Brian]

Simon,

Forget translate. You can't translate proper names.

Google the whole phrase in Japanese, along with tsuba.

[Guido]

 

山城國伏見住

金家 

 

google translator : Yamashiro country Fushimi living

Gold home ???

 

 

Yamashiro no Kuni Fushimi jū (living in Fushimi, Yamashiro province)

Kaneie (name of the maker)

[YOJIMBO]

  

[YOJIMBO]

same like this 

 

http://www.aoijapan.com/tsuba-yamashiro-koku-fushimi-jyu-kaneie-2

[seattle1]

Hello:

 On perhaps a minor point, to transliterate is, in the case of English, to render kanji, and Japanese supplementary  text, into words, using the Latin alphabet, that capture the sound of the Japanese text. Various systems have been used, all imperfect to a degree, and none are necessarily more correct than another. Is it Yedo or Edo, Yezo or Ezo, Tsuneiye or Tsuneie, Kaneiye or Kaneie? Take your pick. The idea is to capture phonetically, however imperfectly, the Japanese spoken sound. To translate, not the issue here, is to render the Japanese text into English, German, French, what have you. As for Kaneiye/Kaneie, Robert Haynes in his earlier writings went for Kaneiye, as did many other writers, though now Kaneie seems to be the more common usage.

 More to the point of Simon's tsuba, rejecting it as a mere mass produced thing might be a little premature. The orthodoxy of the moment is to recognize a first and second Kaneie and reject all others. In the pre-war era, one of the major ranking authorities Kawaguchi Noboru, in his magnum opus Tsuba Taikan (Token Shuju Shinbun Sha, 1935), advocated a theory that there were multiple generations, nine by my count and going into the early 18th Century. The mei of an illustrated 5th generation looks very much like that of Simon's tsuba. Kawaguchi's theory has since fallen into disfavor and I do not subscribe to it in any hard and fast way, but we do see some very nicely done Kaneie pieces which certainly fully invoke the classic paradigm of the group initiators. Tsuba study is very much in flux and open to different re-workings of linages and relationships and who knows what the future will say about Kaneie? There is a somewhat similar issue with Nobuiye/Nobuie tsuba which now readily accepts various provincial makers separate in space but similar in work style with the Owari masters.

 Arnold F.

[kusunokimasahige]

I mainly use Hepburn because that was what I grew up with.

[Guido]

On perhaps a minor point, to transliterate is, in the case of English, to render kanji, and Japanese supplementary  text, into words, using the Latin alphabet, that capture the sound of the Japanese text. Various systems have been used, all imperfect to a degree, and none are necessarily more correct than another. Is it Yedo or Edo, Yezo or Ezo, Tsuneiye or Tsuneie, Kaneiye or Kaneie? Take your pick. The idea is to capture phonetically, however imperfectly, the Japanese spoken sound. To translate, not the issue here, is to render the Japanese text into English, German, French, what have you.

 

If you make notes of how to pronounce Japanese words just for yourself, anything goes, I guess, but that doesn’t mean everybody else understands you. To be understood, a recognized transcription system is needed, and the Hepburn romanization system (although not officially approved) is the most widely used method, and is regarded as the best to render Japanese pronunciation for Western speakers.

 

To add a “y” in front of an “e” originates with native English speakers for the benefit of not confusing the pronounciation of “e” and “i”. You only have look through some recent posts on this board to see koshirae written koshirai, or hakogaki hakogake. No, the world will not descend into chaos due to that, but if Japanese words are being used, why not use a transcription that makes sense to all readers of this international message board?

 

I’m probably making a few more enemies by posting one of my favorite jokes, but so be it  :

 

How to you call someone who speaks three languages? Trilingual.

How to you call someone who speaks two languages? Bilingual.

How to you call someone who speaks only one language? American.

[Jean]

You could have added French, Guido, to your last sentence