Hakuho Posted September 15, 2014 Report Posted September 15, 2014 Hello all! First time poster. I'm very new to the Nihonto world and I'm trying to learn as much as I can. I've come across this seemingly unusual shin gunto mounted wakizashi and may be able to pick it up at a low price. Can anyone please tell me about the nakago and why it's shaped the way it is? I had a chance to look at it in person and I did not see any file markings but then again I am very new to this so may have missed it. I will post a similar message in the translation section asking about the signature so as not to contaminate board topics. Thank you! PS - please excuse me if I have not posted correctly. I looked around and couldn't find rules for general posting. -------------- - In Kim Quote
Stephen Posted September 15, 2014 Report Posted September 15, 2014 older sword that bee thru a few re mounts most likely buke to kyu to gunto, tang had a bolt added for kyu mount, nice find Quote
Hakuho Posted September 15, 2014 Author Report Posted September 15, 2014 older sword that bee thru a few re mounts most likely buke to kyu to gunto, tang had a bolt added for kyu mount, nice find Wow this forum is amazing! Thank you so much for the quick reply! The blade did have a (too my untrained eye) beautiful hamon but it does need some TLC. There are black rust spots and some minor pitting on the blade but the edge and kissaki look to be in great shape. Should this post then be move to the "Nihonto" forum? Am I that lucky to have found a genuine Nihonto in the beginning of my Nihonto journey? Quote
Grey Doffin Posted September 15, 2014 Report Posted September 15, 2014 Hi In Kim, Mutsu no Kami Kaneyasu (the yasu is mostly missing). Looks to be shodai, 1st generation. A very well respected smith but... The nakago has been brutalized to adapt to a military tsuka that requires a bolt and nut at the bottom. This seriously effects the value. Still, probably a quite nice find. Grey Quote
Hakuho Posted September 15, 2014 Author Report Posted September 15, 2014 Hi In Kim,Mutsu no Kami Kaneyasu (the yasu is mostly missing). Looks to be shodai, 1st generation. A very well respected smith but... The nakago has been brutalized to adapt to a military tsuka that requires a bolt and nut at the bottom. This seriously effects the value. Still, probably a quite nice find. Grey Thank you for the translation! Can you educate me as to what differentiates a shodai from nidai and on? For me the inherent beauty of the blade is what I'd like to obtain this blade for. I understand that the nakago affects the value but for a first nihonto, I'd be very happy with it. Edit - after a bit of researching, I understand that the shodai Kaneyasu wrote his signature in mirror form but I'm also seeing conflicting information that the nidai did as well for a period. LOL I didn't even realize that the kanji was mirrored! Thank you so much for educating me... this will go into my pink mushy hard drive. Quote
Grey Doffin Posted September 15, 2014 Report Posted September 15, 2014 Shodai because the mei matches those of the Shodai in my references. From Fujishiro's Nihon Token Jiten: Shinto-hen. Grey Quote
cabowen Posted September 15, 2014 Report Posted September 15, 2014 He was a well known smith known as hidare-mutsu because of his very odd habit of writing kanji in a mirror image. There are many fakes of his work. Not sure about this one.... Quote
Hakuho Posted September 15, 2014 Author Report Posted September 15, 2014 Thank you for the replies. Hopefully I'll be able to acquire it shortly and will post more detailed pics of it at that time. Quote
Grey Doffin Posted September 15, 2014 Report Posted September 15, 2014 Hi In Kim, What Chris said is important to keep in mind. This could be a fake signature. The more important the smith, the more likely that a mei is gimei (forgery). Some gimei are very close to the real thing; caution is advised. Google Kaneyasu to see if you can find oshigata that show you what his work is supposed to look like. No matter the signature, the work has to be correct for the smith. Grey Quote
Hakuho Posted September 16, 2014 Author Report Posted September 16, 2014 Hi In Kim,What Chris said is important to keep in mind. This could be a fake signature. The more important the smith, the more likely that a mei is gimei (forgery). Some gimei are very close to the real thing; caution is advised. Google Kaneyasu to see if you can find oshigata that show you what his work is supposed to look like. No matter the signature, the work has to be correct for the smith. Grey Absolutely... I am definitely not dismissing Chris' message. I did as you suggested and googled "kaneyasu oshigata" but either I missed it or there isn't a page with that information. Is Grey's image above the oshigata for Kaneyasu? Also, unfortunately, I won't be able to view it until right before I can buy it. Hopefully I'll be able to get it for "cheap" (a couple hundred bucks) so if it is a gimei then I won't be too disappointed. Even if it is gimei, could it still be a well made nihonto? From the short time I was able to handle it, the blade seemed to be well made and in relatively great shape (minus some rusting and pitting). The lines were sharp and straight, the kissaki was not damaged and there was only a tiny little nick in the blade. The hamon was easily seen but I couldn't make out more details (mainly due to my untrained eye). The current owners have no idea how to take care of the sword so at the very least I will be rescuing a sword from assured neglect. Quote
Grey Doffin Posted September 16, 2014 Report Posted September 16, 2014 Yes; those are oshigata of Shodai Kaneyoshi. Sorry; make that Kaneyasu. Try google for "Mutsu Kami Kaneyasu". The word oshigata just muddles the search. Grey Quote
Hakuho Posted September 16, 2014 Author Report Posted September 16, 2014 Yes; those are oshigata of Shodai Kaneyoshi.Try google for "Mutsu Kami Kaneyoshi". The word oshigata just muddles the search. Grey Is that supposed to be Kaneyasu vice Kaneyoshi? Also is Kaniyasu considered the same as Kaneyasu? Quote
Hakuho Posted September 16, 2014 Author Report Posted September 16, 2014 From what I could find online (and email correspondence with Mr. Benson), it appears that the mei may actually be gimei. Oh well... fanciful thinking that I could be that lucky the first time buying. However, I think I'm going to still buy it as long as I can get it for cheap. Partly as a learning experience but mainly because I think it still deserves to be taken care of instead of relegated to rust away or used to chop up watermelons. A piece of advice I've read many times... I'm buying it for the blade and not the signature. Thank you all for your help! If I do get it, I'll add more pics so you can see the whole wakizashi. Quote
Grey Doffin Posted September 16, 2014 Report Posted September 16, 2014 My mistake. Kaneyasu, not Kaneyoshi. Grey Quote
Hakuho Posted September 18, 2014 Author Report Posted September 18, 2014 Thank you everyone for your help. I didn't buy the wakizashi. Someone else at the auction was willing to pay more for it than I was. If the person that bought the sword reads this post then... congrats on the buy! Quote
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