Another Shingunto

[ikuturso]

Hi all,

 

I received a Japanese officer's sword as a gift and now I'm trying to find out what I actually have. I have done some internet research and read the splendid article at ryujinswords.com. However, I need some expert advise.

 

The blade has seen some use and there's some visible pitting and rust. The edge has chipped in a couple of places. A suguha hamon is visible and it may have some irregularity in a couple of places. Due to the pitted surface, I cannot determine any hada pattern. That's all I can say about it with my amateur eyes.

 

What puzzles me is that I can't find any markings whatsoever on the blade or nakago. The nakago itself bears rather neat file marks. The only markings anywhere on the sword I found on the tsuba and seppa. These seem to be number 616 and two kanji. All fittings fit nicely and seem to be original to the blade.

 

It may be wishful thinking, but with my limited knowledge, I would make it either:

 

1. A non-traditional blade made before 1933

2. An unsigned traditional blade

 

I need some advise as to what to do with it. Do you think it's worth having polished? So far, I have only wiped it with oil to prevent further damage.

 

I uploaded some photos on my photobucket account:

 

http://s854.photobucket.com/user/laitam ... Shin-Gunto

 

Cheers,

 

OT

[Brian]

Hi OT, a name would be nice.

Ouch..the condition is sadly very poor. But nothing a good polish shouldn't be able to cure. The cost will be high, but since it was free, it may be worth it.

The well done filemarks and hints of a wild hamon look to me as indicators that this might be a nicely done WW2 Gendaito.

Find a polisher to put a window in (small polished area) and take it from there. I think it has potential. Unsigned Gendaito aren't the best investment, but there can still be a good sword under that pitting.

 

Brian

[ikuturso]

Thanks, Brian and sorry, I thought my name would appear automatically.

 

Can you recommend anyone in Central Europe? I'm currently residing in Switzerland. A window polish would probably be the way to go now. Right now, I'm not prepared to invest several thousand in the full monty, but would rather preserve its current state.

 

I'm a gunsmith by profession and have a lot of interest in antique weapons from the technical and historical standpoint. Of Japanese swords, I only know enough not to screw them up with amateur "restoration".

 

As a kenjutsu practitioner, I have thought about getting a modern sharp blade for occasional tameshigiri. What are your thoughts on using this one? Naturally, this would depend on the results of a window polish, but in case it turns out to be a WW2 gendaito?

 

This whole thing came as a surprise, and I was under the (mis)apprehension that WW2 military swords were mainly junk with very few exceptions. I have a creepy feeling that this present may become more expensive than I expected. I've also heard that many a slippery slope started with a gunto.

 

Could you make anything from the kanji on the seppa?

 

Cheers,

 

Ossi Turpeinen

[David Flynn]

Unfortunately, unsigned Gendaito (unless they are stand out quality) are really not worth polishing. The time and cost involved, means one will never get a proper return for ones money. As far as I know, Sword Socs. will not issue papers for unsigned Gendai.

[cabowen]

I agree with David that it is almost always a losing proposition financially to polish a mumei gendaito. I will say though that there is nothing in the NBTHK guidelines that I am aware of that out of hand dismisses them for shinsa. I know the NTHK-NPO would paper one if it was of the necessary quality and without serious flaws, much like they would a mumei shinto or shinshinto....

[ikuturso]

Gentlemen,

 

Thank you for your comments. I still feel like winning the lottery here, since I wasn't expecting to have a real nihonto. The fact that it probably is "just" an unsigned wartime gendaito doesn't cast a shadow on my joy. In fact, I would feel a bit guilty for accepting a casual gift that turned out to be much more valuable than the previous owner thought.

 

How about having a just a foundation polish on this one? That way, I could restore it back to its functional beauty. In the spirit of the time, it was never intended to be an art sword, but a weapon first and a badge of office second.

 

Of course, even a foundation polish would set me back a bit, but it just makes me sad to see a well-made weapon in a non-functional state.

 

As far as I understand, it's not valuable enough to warrant a full polish, yet too valuable for amateur polishing attempts. In the firearms collecting world, I have seen too many nice historical guns ruined by well-meaning amateur "restoration".

 

Anyway, this sword will be the gem of my modest collection.

 

Cheers,

 

Ossi

[cabowen]

There is no such thing as "just a foundation polish". If a polisher stopped after the foundation polishing, it would look like someone sandpapered the blade.

[ikuturso]

I got this idea from David Hofhine's swordpolish.com website:

 

FOUNDATION POLISH or MARTIAL ARTS POLISH (Shitajitogi): This is exactly the same as the foundation work done on a full polish without the super fine final scratch removal and the art finishing. It includes all of the work of a full polish up to the first uchigumori stone. It also includes some basic finishing to bring out the hamon, boshi, and possibly some hada. The shinogi-ji will be shiny, but unburnished. The blade will be very sharp. This will remove all the defects that a full polish will. This is good for martial arts blades and for blades that may not warrant a full polish, but need to have active rust stopped, straightening, chips removed or a broken tip fixed.

 

That sounds exactly like the thing I'm looking for. However, I wouldn't probably send this blade across the pond for a polish. Is it unusual for a togishi to offer such a service?

 

Cheers,

 

Ossi