lotus Posted February 5, 2013 Report Posted February 5, 2013 Attached is a tsuba with NBTHK attribution of Tosa. It is done in Akasaka style. Does this mean it is a Tosa Myochin tsuba? I would have expected to see the symbol for Myochin on the paper not just Tosa. Or is this how they normal do it since Tosa is a sub-school of Myochin (at least that is my understanding). Also, the metal looks rather newish to my eyes, would you say this is a late Edo piece? Quote
christianmalterre Posted February 5, 2013 Report Posted February 5, 2013 No Myochin to be seen here-at least not in this picture you posted... Tosa can be everything in fact... I personally do not give even one cent on those old papers issued by NBTHK in 70´s meanwhile i saw more incorrect or even totally wrong attributions(especially in Tsuba) than correct ones... If paper-then only buy you Tsuba which already have ben issued by the newer ones(Hozon or up)....or,if you are not 100% shure the paper(an old one) corresponds to the written down in correct manner. Christian Quote
John A Stuart Posted February 5, 2013 Report Posted February 5, 2013 I would investigate Shoami and Tosa group of that school. John Quote
christianmalterre Posted February 5, 2013 Report Posted February 5, 2013 yes John,me,too by first sight of this picture... i have to confess that this low-res picture here does not help very much... "If" an Tosa Myochin-then yes maybe(as the general stylism indicates late Edo) One but had to observate the iron of this Tsuba first-as it´s quite easy so to see Myochin iron immediately... Me,too rather tend for the Shoami Tosa but immediately... Are there better pictures(High-res.) available? Christian Quote
lotus Posted February 5, 2013 Author Report Posted February 5, 2013 Christian - I was not aware about this issue with older papers. Thank you, I will definately keep that in mind. John - I will look into that Shoami / Tosa school, I did not realize there was such a school. I am attaching a better picture that might help clarify the correct school. If anyone wants to throw in an opinion based on the pics, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Quote
christianmalterre Posted February 5, 2013 Report Posted February 5, 2013 very certainly no Tosa-Myochin(as i already wrote) (do you have the Tosa Myochin school article by Shigeo?) Christian Quote
lotus Posted February 5, 2013 Author Report Posted February 5, 2013 Christian - No, I have not seen that article. Is it on the web somewhere? Is it the 3D modeling aspect (seen in tree trunk) of it, that rules it out for Myochin? Because all the Tosa Myochin I have seen are flat and lack the 3D effect. Thanks Quote
Soshin Posted February 5, 2013 Report Posted February 5, 2013 Hi Patrick R., Tosa is a province in pre-modern Japan. The old paper is just saying that the tsuba was likely made there. Which in my opinion isn't all that helpful. "Tosa Myochin" is the Myochin school working in Tosa Province. They were well known for making Akasaka and Higo copies of average to very high quality. Check out the Sasano first book as he has some very nice sukashi examples of Tosa Myochin work. Hope you find the information helpful. Yours truly, David Stiles Quote
christianmalterre Posted February 5, 2013 Report Posted February 5, 2013 It is generally said that they did work either in the Akasaka/or in the Higo stylism... There are but exceptions(as usually)-i do know of one Tsuba worked out in the Nobuie stylism(Owari Nobuie) and myself do have an Yagyu made by them... As far as i know-this very stylism(of your´s Tsuba here) is not known by Myochin-but there may,of course ben others spreading around which are not known till yet of course... I do miss the typical Myochin Iron and the sharp Tagane here on the your´s! Unsigned is quite common-if signed the signature always(...) does include the province equally... Your´s is in mine eyes-an typical Shoami Tsuba...if Tosa Shoami i can not say-this group/stylism never did attract me till yet... The article is not online-i do have it as an binder/maybe it´s but equally published in his new publication?-Do not know,as i don´t have this book yet bought... Christian Quote
John A Stuart Posted February 5, 2013 Report Posted February 5, 2013 I hit the books on the Tosa appellation. In the Tsuba Kanshoki is on pg. 34 a tsuba signed Tosa no Kuni no Ju Iwai Yosaku (kao) reverse Tosa no Ju Iwai Katachi saku (kao) as Tosa tsuba. Stylisation quite different. John Quote
lotus Posted February 5, 2013 Author Report Posted February 5, 2013 John - Are you saying, you found a similar tsuba in that book attributed to Tosa? As in Myochin or Shoami? I found a couple more examples out there with the same design but differs in rim and decorations. Seller attribution on first is Shoami and on second is Bizen Shoami. I am leaning towards Shoami as a safe bet. However, I wonder how the old NBTHK could pinpoint a location for this tsuba as it is not signed. The few tosa shoami examples I found do not share any characteristics to this one. And if they did think it was Shoami, I would think they would put Shoami as the attribition not Tosa. Puzzling. Quote
John A Stuart Posted February 5, 2013 Report Posted February 5, 2013 What I wanted to do is dot the i's and cross the t's. What I think is; the tsuba is a Shoami rendition based on an Higo design. The paper in mentioning just Tosa is a possible appellation since for example the tsuba I quoted is by a known Tosa smth Yosaku 1750-1800 from Iwai. There is no mention of a Shoami connection. The example in the book however is very different and I haven't seen any others by this smith. We must note also that Tosashoami is not a recognised school, like Aizushoami, Kyoshoami, Awashoami etc., but, Shoami school of Tosa province. Tosa Myochin a sub group of Myochin has similarly themed tsuba, most of Akasaka style some Higo, but, held in slight regard, for the most part, to Akasaka tsuba. John Quote
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