Chishiki

Thanks Curran. Whilst the Kicho paper said shakudo I thought there was a chance of being shibuichi which would have been the game changer.. Just another wishful thinker 😀. I was optimistic for TH though and would have gone into melt down if they didn't get it. Whilst I am not much of a fittings collector I feel a frustration with attributions and as you say it seems they are not brave to elaborate. As you say, a time frame in brackets would be nice. This probably why Tanobe has a steady line of people waiting for his Sayagaki. They won't more info. Having said all that I just bought a pair of daisho tsuba papered to Higo and I am happy enough with that as they are an oddity. As always thanks for your input. Mark

Hi Curran, that all makes sense. Thanks for the clarification. I still think they could have stipulated a time frame, momoyama, early edo, whatever. Not much value for money at nearly 50,000¥ as you know. I think they are clearly early with the thin plate and posts as they are. Maybe in NBTHK the classification of Umetada satisfactorily covers that period. Just as side note I've often wondered if there is a recognised scholar in fittings who does hakogaki the same as Tanobe does sayagaki for swords. Thanks again Curran.

The results are in. Tokubetsu Hozon. Umetada. Well happy with the Tokubetsu Hozon result and the Umetada attribution was always at the top of the possibilities. The disappointment is that I think they should be Ko-Umetada. Oh well....we move on. Mark

Hi Curran, just a note on my experience with the shinsa process. When submitted my friend produced the green papers as I thought they presented a gateway to Tokubetsu Hozon shinsa. The staff member just threw them back and was totally uninterested in them. Fair enough, now I know. My question is were the green papers 'ever' acknowledged for submission to Tokubetsu Hozon shinsa for fittings? Mark

Very interesting Piers, a nice clarification of the theme. It seems Umetada were fairly prolific with it. I don't know for sure but the other tsuba shown by Ian probably fits this school too. From what I can see it is repeated from muromachi period and seems to be uncommon from the mid edo period. Also interesting to see those Nara menuki. I didn't have any experience with that group but searching around it seems they used a fairly highly refined looking copper. Nice theme, one of my favourites. Thanks for the input. Mark

Hi. I wish I could add some useful info for you but my knowledge is fairly basic. I would concur with you though that a fair assessment would be early edo, 17th C. You said they signed, is there a mei on the side? Thanks again for joining the thread. Mark

Hi, not sure why I couldn't receive your message but nice of you to post your menuki here. Personally I wouldn't have called ezo on those menuki. I am just a novice here but what I have been finding out is that the theme of these menuki seem to be used over a broad number of groups and periods. Do you have a photo of the underneath and have you an opinion as to period of make? Thanks for taking interest in this thread. Mark

Hi, nothing heard yet. When submitted I was told the results would come out about June. I'll update you as soon as I hear anything. Mark

Hi. I wanted to add these menuki to this thread for reference. Tokubetsu Hozon, Ezo. I assume they fall into the middle to later period. Mark

Hey Jesse....well it's good to know it wasn't the seller bidding me up. what opinion did you form? Do you agree with the seller? Mino. Mark

3 of 3 people so far say mino. I've been searching the internet for an example of mino menuki made of shibuichi with mercury gilding. Do you have a reference example? It will be very helpful. Thanks. Mark

Seller nominated mino. I should have included it in the list. Thanks for the input. Mark

Hi. Sharing these interesting menuki, made of shibuichi, and gold gilding. Rather large 4.6cm ×1.8cm. Whilst plain in the degree of artistic merit they have a charm about them. What school? I think maybe ezo, or umetada. Any thoughts? I will submit them for shinsa in the future. Mark

Hi Curran. Submitted for shinsa. Let's see where they go with attribution. I will let you know the results. We are having a 'nearest the pin ' guessing game. So far opinions are ko umetada, umetada, ko kinko and ezo. I think that covers all possibilities. 😆. For me the 'ko' attribution is more important than the school. I always thought they were early...momoyama, early edo maybe. The work is is nice. I think there is an error on the kicho paper. Apparently it says shakudo base but from what I can see I think shibuichi is more correct. I've never held them so just speculating. Personally my guess is ko umetada. Mark

Thanks for your input. I really appreciate it. It may not even be a mei..a Buddhist phrase? Anyway, I appreciate you having a try. Thanks

Bump. I'm baffled. If possible could one of our Japanese friends just say it is unreadable or meaningless. That way I can just disregard it. Thanks Mark

Hi. Can anyone make out what the shumei says if it is a mei..... large Umetada menuki with green papers. Thanks for any input. Mark

Super, thanks David. Great website. Mark

I don't know why I can't find such basic information of their website. It seems they don't even have an email address. Does anyone know when the next fittings shinsa is? Thanks. Mark

The papers. Interesting it seems a low number. 156, not that it means anything. Kyle I'm surprised to hear they are shakudo, assumed shibuichi. But as they say, buy the piece and not the paper. Contemplating shinsa, potentially achieving nothing but it's out of interest. Mark btw nice tsuba and thanks for the detailed info and reply.

Hi Kyle. No doubt you saw the listing. Yes the papers say 'UMETADA'. I do remember reading a comment about Ezo Revival somewhere. That would explain the size, the base metal and wear to the gilding. Mark

When I first saw them Ezo was exactly my thought but the paper says otherwise. I think these fall into a grey area.🤔 Mark

I went in hard to acquire these menuki as I just love them. They measure a long 9.5cm. Have a shumei written on the inside which I cannot read. They are still in Japan and I am just bursting to share them with you. They have a green paper but I would like to hear opinions from members here. Mark