roger dundas

Thanks Ken. We(my wife who does the pictures and posting of same) did overlook the second tsuba and when we realised this, tried to edit and add the second picture and thought we had pulled it off but obviously not. She is now out riding her horse(5pm here) and won't return for 2 or 3 hours when we will get the second picture off. Unfortunately my computer competence is somewhat stone age but my wife is fairly o.k if I explain what I want clearly-errors creep in when I don't. Now because it's Christmas and a forgiving time I will indulge myself by saying just how impressive it was to see you say you flew Phantom fighter planes-the Phantom being a favourite of mine I'm old' just turned 80 but some things do still impress me and that fact did- well done. But I also can see by the erudite comments and the depth of knowledge of your fellow Board members plus sometimes a clue to their backgrounds that many/most, maybe all are very smart blokes. As intimated, Fred Flintstone is probably more my style so you can see why I am impressed. Roger d

Maybe no one will be looking during this Christmas break but once more can I ask for an opinion on these two pieces plus on Soten made tsuba generally. I get the impression that they are not(?) always held in high regard but for my interest these are very satisfying for workmanship and condition. I notice that the Compton catalogues have few examples so suppose he wasn't in love with the genre ? I can handle any brutal comments that might come this way. Measurements are 81 x 75 and 80 x 77mm roger d

Further, I feel guilty about venturing into the comments section being quite aware of my innocence/ignorance and will mostly desist but just felt a need to comment on the above. Roger

Well, for mine these things are way over the top and verging on hideous. Not at all refined but as I am learning, my judgement isn't so hot. Roger

Thanks once again Jean but once again not what I had thought but of course experience is what counts and my reason for 'baring' what I have is to try and learn just what is what. A bit trickier than expected. Roger D

Have had for a few years now and have seen a couple of others offered for sale of pretty much identical 'shell' design ,the only differences being the chiselled maker's name- the others seeming to be more extensive. I was wondering if someone would care to offer an opinion as to the authenticity of this tsuba. 73 x 67 x 5 mm. Thick and heavy. Seems good iron to me.

That was kind of you Jean to offer an opinion coupled with the reasons for same. Information formed from your own observations and considerations and I get access to it with minimal research on my part. This NMP is a wonderful invention. Again thanks- mind you I was hoping for an earlier period. Never the less it seems to be the 'real thing'.? Roger D

I am just interested to know if I should be enjoying this piece which I do (one of the first bought) or look at it in some other way ? I can 'cop' criticism of it or me (been practicing much of my life) but prefer it if done gently. Seriously though, I would appreciate any information that someone might offer. Thank you, Roger D

Here is where I get a bit embarrassed about terminology and thanks for your response Jean . The period of the piece particularly is what interests me, the schools not so much because schools haven't been properly sorted into my mind at this stage and maybe never will . As for workmanship, that can be a beautiful thing to admire but the discussion very recently involving Ford pointing out the features of outstanding work compared to the features of just good work was really interesting because if your ideals are highly refined then you have the benefit of recognizing and enjoying the very best but possibly not so much something less than the best ? I think Brian intimated this point. I have to be careful here or I may be embarrassed again. It is really the period of the tsuba I'm interested in, trusting that it is a true and reasonable example. Roger.

I have seen two or three examples of this design, one on Shibuiswords- tsuba and one on NMB on September 27, 2006- a long while back.. 70 x 69 x 4mm. Late muromachi- early edo maybe, that's if the darn thing is for real which I believe/hope it is. For all that , I'm pleased to have it if it is real. Roger D

I hope you long term collectors and commentators will allow me to make a remark, a comment on the above. It's not always fun to have a discussion piece blown out of the water but for all that to have an in depth explanation to explain the whys and wherefores is just brilliant. That is both for the owner and all the others showing an interest. I have said similar before but it is just so impressive to such as me. Roger D

Another question in my mind is about when was this made ? Before the end of the edo period or later in the meiji period when it would be sold more as a relic or souvenir than a tsuba for mounting? Although advertised as bronze, the plate is a fine, brown coloured iron and the gold bird seems fairly solid in construction. If anyone else would care to comment I would be grateful- only have around 6 or 8 more to post and then I'm out of your hair. Roger D

Thanks for your response Bruno- I didn't get too much right with my ideas so again, thanks. Roger D.

Purchased in 2012 as bronze plate, a small amount of surface oxidation could be seen. Could I ask for clarification of maker and smith please and an idea of the condition of the heron or is it an egret ? Other than the amount of damage to the bird- (flattened body, marked beak), the rest looks O.K to such as me ? 80 x 75 x 4.6 at rim Masamune the maker I think ? thanks in anticipation Roger Dundas

I also had no idea of that either and wish him well . Roger D

All grist for the mill and all done so pleasantly- of value to all. Roger D

That is a a generous post and offer Ford-thanks. And an interesting observation on the difficulties and pitfalls for novice tsuba collectors, in fact collectors of other works of art as well. Sometimes I suppose it can be like a trip to the casino (not my interest) until we have built up experience and knowledge and possibly been burnt now and then. That's occasionally been the way I have stumbled through collecting. And let me say just what a brilliant place this Nihonto Message Board is with all of your accumulated experiences offered to others. Roger D.

Grev, you asked if the vine inlay on the second tsuba was water weed- I have spent time going through the tsuba books I have and can't tell precisely. It certainly seems like it but I can't pick up any elsewhere having six petals (Isuppose they are petals?) . I just haven't seen anything exactly like this one. Although not big, I particularly like it. By the way is it OK for me to say here that I like very much Grev's book on the Birmingham Museum's tsuba. Very well done and congratulations. Roger D.

Thanks for responding and thanks for offering your opinion Patrick. I must say it was welcomed. I have thoroughly enjoyed going through the post you initiated above with all the whys and wherefores from the different contributers- it seems this issue has been gone over a few times in the past as well. I presume a person's acceptance of a modern copy depends on the point of view of the collector- collecting for the artistry, collecting for the history , maybe collecting for a combination of both or collecting the very top end items once held by the 'very top end' people? Do you want to know this?- I was once offered a fine, gold mounted Turkish kilij (sword) that had been presented to an Admiral Dundas in about the 1840s-1850s- for a big price. I commented to the (London) dealer that I didn't care about old Dundas and if he had known me, he wouldn't have cared about me either. Same name, absolutely no connection. I know someone called Dale King...……. One more thing- being new here do I need to spend time as an apprentice before I say too much (as I do sometimes)? Roger D

I had thought that a modern tsuba maker probably wouldn't bother with double or triple sekigane fillers or go to much trouble with nakago ana modifications especially if the replica tsuba was of not much consequence- so I bought these two for little money as examples of their type. I quite liked them for that reason but now having read some of the recent posts I wonder just where they fit in and welcome your thoughts if you would care ? The Owari tsuba is 65 x 64 x 5 mm The Shippo(mon) Sukashi is 68 x 66 x 3mm Thanks....Roger Dundas

Thank you for your responses. Ken you mentioned your take on katana sizes for tsuba- that is the first time I have seen an opinion offerred. I read a lot ( maybe not to the degree that NMB nihonto followers would on tsuba ) but until now, just nowhere has a rough measurement divide been made that I have seen. I personally had thought somewhere around 75mm or more so was glad to get Ken's experienced opinion. Two comments regarding how spoke divisions were made. Like Grev noted about his spoked tsuba, this one also has been made by drilling and filing (not sawing apparently) and not made in parts and then brazed together or so my eyesight tells me (via 8x magnification). That might have been the technique used for the larger spoked tsuba but not the smaller examples ? That fact alone is what makes this smaller tsuba so appealing plus the dark colour of the iron and all that determined work of those artisan . I very much appreciate your comments and your time. Roger D

Thanks for doing that Brian and it suits me to do that as well- but if I fail to get it right then it's just not yet knowing how rather than stubborness. Roger D.

Some moe pics as encouraged by Stephen K- thank you for that and hoping they make things more discernable ? Roger Dundas

Thank you all for your replies and information. Roger D

Am I going about this the wrong way- possibly not aware of the correct protocols in posting items and questions, maybe expecting responses from busy people ? Certainly no missteps are intended if there are any on my behalf but I thought members would be interested just to view what else there is to see and for my part I am interested to know what members can impart- if you feel inclined to share your learning as I would very much welcome replies to the above. Roger D