Bruce Pennington

I thought we had some single and double digit coppers observed. Or, are you saying the earliest observed set of aligned machi were on 857?

Mal must be busy, or has nothing on these guys. Oh MAL, where ARE you *sing-song sounding*? @mecox

Just curious, Thomas, have you seen a blade with this one?

Thanks @oli. I just like to understand things. I wish I had recorded the source of the one Masamori kokuin I have on file. I've been unsuccessful in finding it again. So, I don't know if it was on an 1800s blade or a WWII blade. Either way, it seems quite unexpected to see two smiths, who happen to have Hosokawa in their real names, just coincidentally creating a kokuin based of the same name. In the world of kokuin use, it wasn't a common practice in the first place. So to have 2 guys living in different parts of the country by chance creating the same kokuin is just wild. But, it is what it is. Thanks for putting up with my questions, guys! Enjoying it all.

Jaco, There were 3 kinds of swords during WWII that used that shape tsuba - Army contingency model (Type 3), Navy kaigunto (Type 97), and the post war souvenir made by the Tenshozan factory. Army NCO Type 95 had one, too, but it would have side hole for the locking latch. Left to right: Kaigunto, Souvenir, Army Type 95 NCO (didn't think to add the Type 3 when I made this photo) If you would like to find out is to measure the thickness. Souvenir tsuba are noticeably thinner at 3.64mm compared to 5.3 for kaigunto. Yours could be either, but finding 1 small seppa with it starts leaning toward the souvenir as they came with only 1 seppa. Could be simple coincidence, though, if your tsuba is thicker. It's peculiar to see the assembly number stamped so close to the edge. They are usually closer to the center to be hidden by the seppa. This may point more to the navy kaigunto, as they had a dai-seppa that was quite large and might have covered that number. Cool find!

Hi Gerry, Yes, it is a good example of a type 95 NCO sword.

Here's a new one to me - Seppa made with loop for leather retention strap. Found on this Wehrmacht-awards thread. That's the only shot of it, but you can see it here.

Hi Naf! If the leather cover fits nicely, I'd say this was done during the war to "suit up" a civilian sword for the war. You said you added the tassel, but did it already have the sarute and barrel screw? If so, this adds to the fact that it was a wartime refit. I cannot help with the age of blade and fittings. Other guys can, and will soon, though.

Oliver, Sorry for my lack of knowledge, so still working this out - His real name is Hosokawa Sennosuke. So isn't that the source of his stamp, not a school? The WWII Masayohsi was also named Hosokawa: "MASAYOSHI (正義), Shōwa (昭和, 1926-1989), Tochigi – “Yashū-jū Hosokawa Masayoshi” (埜州住細川正義), real name Hosokawa Shigeo (細川重雄), he studied under his father Hosokawa Masamitsu (細川正光), he was the 7th gen. after the 1st gen. Hosokawa Ryōsuke Masayoshi (細川良助正義) who was active around Kyōwa (享和, 1801-1804) (see picture right)" Also, I see the 1800s Masayoshi used different kanji for Hosokawa - 細川 - yet used the same kanji in the kao as Masayoshi did - 埜州. Complete mystery to me.

Great stuff guys thank you! I will amend the annotation for this one in my stamps document.

That's great, Thomas! Any idea what the "Hosokawa" referred to? Google gets me modern manufacturing company and the ancient Hosokawa samurai clan. Do you know what it meant in this case?

Just had a learning moment on another thread about the offset machi on 95s. @Kiipu pointed out that early coppers had aligned machi. I had always thought that all Type 95s had offset machi. So, I checked mine, serial #2643, and sure enough they are aligned! Thomas and/or @Scogg = I don't have photos of all my other 95 machi, but the ones I have are all offset. Are the aligned machi only seen on early coppers?

Bumping this one. @mecox - any knowledge of this Masamori? I've seen that they are not the same guy, so ..... why the same kokuin? Updating my question on the kokuin, though, they are different. I've found more Masayoshi kokuin and the bottom kanji in the stamp has a vertical line that goes all the way through, where it doesn't on the Masamori: Although, after saying that, I did find one that seems to not go all the way through, just like the Masamori one. Can anyone recognize the kanji in the stamps? Maybe it's a slogan or Buddhist term?

Yes, looks like he had it up for sale in Dec '25. Must not have met his reserve for the auction. Thanks, John!

No worries, John! I do have that one already, and really appreciate that your checked with me to make sure.

Steve, Type 3? No stamps?

DC, Would you mind removing the tsuba/seppa set and getting a shot of this area, for me? Might be a Seki stamp.

Yes. We've been using "Kao" as the generic term for a smith's personal "trademark." There are two kinds, the inscribed kind, like this one, called kakihan; and the hot-stamped kind called kokuin.

Keep on keepin' on, brother!

Well, we use "knock off" in a negative way. When this sword was made (assuming we are right about it being made for collaboration forces), it was an honest attempt by a non-Japanese sword smith to make a real weapon for a real collaboration officer that was inline with the Japanese Army. So, yes, it was a a best-effort at making a sword in the image of the Japanese army gunto.

One of the better replicas, Polish?, posted on this Gunboards thread. Attempting to be a Gifu stamped Nagoya blade. Unusual to see one in the 70000 20000 (read that number wrong, originally) number range. These are usually seen in 30000-50000.

I'd go with Kirill and Trystan on this. Among many things, the tsuba is all wrong. It should be shaped like this: Not Japanese made. However if the guy is certain on the history, it was likely made, like Trystan said.

Thanks, Steve. When trying to ID a blade, and weed out fakes, there are a few things we can look at. 1. Do the machi line up? Chinese fakes often have offset machi, like NCO Type 95s, that don't line up. Yours line up. However, some fakes get that right, so it clears the offset machi test, but still not sure. 2. The bohi - Fakes often get the bohi wrong, starting too far down the blade and ending poorly. Yours starts prior to the blade and ends with a clear shape. That's good. 3. Kissaki (blade tip) - Chinese like an anglular tip, Japanese nicely rounded. Yours is rounded, however like the machi line we have seen rounded tips on fakes. So, good, but not definitive 4. Hamon (temper line) - Though hard to see, yours seems to have one. Others might disagree, don't know for sure. 5. Nakago - Shape, yasurime (file marks), shinogi line (ridge that runs along both sides, full length of the blade and through the nakago), mei - Japanese nakago have distinct features. Fakes usually get all of these wrong. Yours has no yasurime and the shinogi is weak. The mei looks poorly struck. Overall - My first thought was that this was a zoheito (a particular style of factory blade made of one piece steel). But they usually are not signed (except by one smith), and the end of the bohi usually has a different shape. However I do have a zoheito on file with a non-standard bohi ending. What I think we have is a late-war blade, possibly a late war zoheito. Sesko lists one wartime Norimitsu and we are aware that there were many unregistered smiths operating during the war. I don't think this was the Nobumitsu listed in Sesko, as he was an RJT qualified smith, but it could have been one of the smiths we see that popped up at the end of the war. All that being said, it could be something made in occupied lands, and it could be a fake. But with the fittings and the points I see, I think the odds are in line with late-war work. Just an opinion.

Steve, Are you able to post photos of the bare nakago showing the machi (notches where the nakago meets the blade) and a couple shots of the blade/tip?

Plenty of guys have used leather to make seppa.