Stopper37

Thanks guys.... Interesting, another one of those non tamahagane swords papered and sold in Japan... Anything is possible I guess... looking at the link, If it were rust resistant it really has much more nie nioi activities than the normal kai Guntos rust resistant steel... Maybe I should buy the sword..... No I must resist....

Without hijack the OP's topic too much, China was in a political mess, many factions were friendly to many different countries. Along with Panzer II, they also had 300000 M35 German helmets, South West regions had Tommy guns yet did a local copy of the IJA type 38 rifle.... Anything was possible there. I collect Mauser (at least half of the post ww1 C96 went to China) so read up about these things. Sorry guys, this is actually way out of the scope of this site, I will stop now

I was not talking about Chinese collaborator swords, the style I refered to was the early 1910s Chinese sword. I am holding a copy of Chinese Swords vol 2: Beiyang/Republican & Warlord by Jan E. Culbertson in front of me at the moment. They are not unicorns. The cross swords were usually "five race" flag and Republican war flag (what I called the wheel thingie) As for my sword being suspect, I have had a few email exchanges with Jan some years back about it and he seemed to think it was legit. Of course we could be both wrong. My point was merely that they counterfeiter copied a non Japanese sword by making a solid cast repro of a Chinese sword, so it is a beyond lousy job. Whether my sword was legit was not relevant. Edit: Attached is a low res pic that Jan sent me before it went into his book, the "wheel thingie" is just one of the many variants of the republican flags. In the book, there were also Chinese contract (not Japanese occupation) Kyu guntos with the war flag where cherry blossom is usually found.

That is actually a repro of a Chinese dress sword, the "wheel" was an early Chinese Republican era symbol. Here are some pics of the sword I had years ago. The better ones were said to be Japanese made and actually harder to find than a IJA dress Saber. You even get kyu Guntos like that (people often think that wheel looking thingie is a Mon) The full brass cast handle is a dead giveaway, they are not even trying......

I didn't buy the sword, just saw it on a local gun sale site (I lurk those sites to find older blades in Gunto mounts). Generally I would go meh, it's showato but have never come across Tokushu Hagane on the tang before and curious about it. https://www.buyusedguns.com.au/Japanese-sword-15712.html

I have recently came across a Gunto signed Tokushu-ko motte Ido Hidetoshi saku (特殊鋼以井戸秀俊作), while Guntos are usually not my cup of tea, I am very curious about what "Special Steel"/Tokushu Hagane is..... Kaigunto type rust resistant steel? Yasuki Hagane? Something totally different?

Not too much help for Japanese sword collectors to be honest, I have all 3 volumes plus the dagger book, there are some examples of Japanese made dress swords in each volume (only a one in Vol 3). Having said that, it would have saved lots of collectors time and effort to search for the "mon" on a kyu gunto handle of a Japanese made Chinese Republican sword (it has a funny looking 9 pointed star that looks like a mon). It is a pity that he did not include the Japanese made Manchukuo daggers in the Chinese dagger book, it was in his draft (he was kind enough to send me an electronic copy before the book was available in 2011).

According to page 23 of Jan Culbertson's Chinese Sword: nationalist and communist, the logo is Nationalist Chinese Police. Edit: looks like its been answered in another post thread, nevermind

okay.... here are the two sides of the Nakago http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy19 ... CN2723.jpg http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy19 ... CN2719.jpg The spine side http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy19 ... CN2721.jpg and next to a longish Wakizashi http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy19 ... CN2728.jpg The more I look at it, the more I think it is not a wakizashi blade. The blade is too long (just over 20in from mune to tip) to be this narrow. Although the hamon is very very very narrow (at least it doesn't run off and there is also enough meat left for a polisher to put the shinogi back on, phew) that it could have be polished down a lot. http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy19 ... CN2730.jpg Also the Nakago doesn't look like it follow the curve of the blade....

I will try to post some pics when I am reunited with my digi cam tomorrow, it was left at work.....

It was my thought as well but was wondering if there were proper gendaito blades found in those police mounts as well..... yeah it is an eye sore and back into the mounts already.... Missing SA already, it is raining here in WINTER!!!! Never had to oil swords more than once a month in winter before.....

And here's the whole blade http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy19 ... 011003.jpg

I picked up a police/prison short sword just because I was curious (bored) and the price was good. I was expecting to found a chormed blade inside but it wasn't. None the less, I didn't pay much attention, it was in pretty sad condition, with grind marks all over and the kissaki/yokote was sanded to hell and very round and the whole thing was covered in some gummy old grease. http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy19 ... 011004.jpg Anyway, I oiled the blade daily for a few days and the greasy stuff came off and I was shocked...... Boshi, hamon, nie, whole nine yard!!! http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy19 ... 052011.jpg So I carefully checked the handle and the retention screws looked loose so I undid them to get the tang out. The rust look pretty new and the nakago had the typical shingunto assemble marking, the marks match those found on the habaki, seppa and the inside of the hand guard thing. http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy19 ... 011002.jpg Now my question is, did they use to make the police short sword blades like the shin gunto, with some machined and some traditional? Or were they all supposed to be chromed blades for the dress uniform and not meant to for fighting at all? Maybe I just happen to own an odd one with an old Wakizashi blade in? It is fairly common to find old blades in type 94/98 and kyu gunto mounts but I have never heard of one done on police sword before......

looks like I got lucky.... the only pity is the missing Kabutogane... but then I wouldn't have been able to pick it up at a good price....

So, I couldn't resist.... and I opened a length of 1cm to see if there was a lacquered saya.... well..... ..... Lacquered bristle inlay!!!! So I opened the whole thing as quick as I could without damaging the saya. I think it used to be a Han-dachi saya, not tachi BUT the two Ashi are way cheaper looking than the rest of the saya, it looks like export kitchen steel tachi.... My theory is that when the owner went to war, he had the ashi added to the saya so that it would look like a very old sword under the leather. Kinda like why people put wheel covers on car to make them look like mag wheels.... BTW funny how the ashi ring was attached to the body of the ashi... it was just tied on with strings.... doesn't seem too strong to me..... Anyway, the ashi are loose so I think I will try to get them off (the other fittings are in the way so i can't slide them off, any suggestions?) and put a Kurigata back on..... I have to say I am a very happy camper... Now I must just hunt for a iron kabutogane to fit the theme.... ahhhhhhhhhhhh it's gonna take a while :D

Hi all I recent saw a "WW2 sword" listed and saw the leather cover saya looking rather different. The ashi looked like one from a tachi and there are more bumps on the leather than just the ashi and semegane. So I thought there may be an old sword inside and the price was very good, I took it. Got the sword just the other day, from what I can see, the top of the second ashi was cut down but the rest of the fittings were there. I cleaned up the exposed parts with just oil and cloth (not sure if the gold inlay will stay with ivory rubbing) and they looked rather well done to me: I think they may be old but then the theme is cherry blossom so it has a gunto feel to it so I might be wrong. I am a bit concerned about the the iron fittings rusting away and thinking of removing the leather. The way I see it, I have to cut the stitching off to the the leather off (it is very dry and stiff). Or maybe I can wet and try to stretch it? Or should I actually leave it alone? Oh BTW that's the blade, I don't think it is koto old, maybe shinshinto, so maybe the tachi fittings don't even belong to the blade, although the nakago/fuchi/tsuka fit each other well and the saya fits well. http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy19 ... nakago.jpg http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy19 ... 1653-1.jpg http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy19 ... 37/tip.jpg

oops only looked at the name and not the date, didn't even consider it, should have know better.....

My 2 cents worth, here are examples of his signature from toko taikan. The mei style of those examples in the book look very different themselves, could it be his students signing his mei with his blessing (I was told it was acceptable and not gemei, but not sure)? And from what I have read, he has his developed his own style of hamon and that means before that time he did make some blade not typical of suke hiro school. I started collection some mere 2-3 yr ago and there is so much to learn, but one of the fellow collector gave a a very sound advice concerning my own Wak that's also signed Suke Hiro: "there are so many fakes out there and some of them are actually nice swords with a fake mei on, unless it has been passed shinsa, treat it as gemei. But what the hell, a fine sword is a fine sword, just worth a lot less." I have since seen some another 2 or so blades that failed shinsa, but one of them looks so great that I really wouldn't mind having. BTW here is yet another example of "most likely gemei" Suke Hiro II, gemei or not, I love it all the same. http://s791.photobucket.com/albums/yy19 ... e8a003.jpg

thank you gents for the info, for a moment I thought I got myself a super rare blade.n Oh well, I still like the feel of the blade and it surely will make a fun holiday project making a new tuska and fixing the saya.

I picked up a Showato recently, it came with a tachi saya and no handle (came with a handle meant for another sword with much bigger nakago). I am almost sure the saya was made for the blade as it fits really well, the same goes for the tusba ana and dai seppa. the tachi fitting are very plain brass ones but fairly well made. The sori is very deep and the sugata has a koto feel to it (well except at 26 in, it is quite a bit shorter). I have not seen a Showa blade with that much curve on before, but then I am no expert so maybe there are. The sugata is what convinced me that was not really meant to go to war with. The tang is very short, although well made and follows the curve of the blade. it is signed Seki KaneMoto and comes with a Sho stamp, so it can't be traditionally made. and the hamon looks like this: I have read there were tachi style swords made in WW2, but they were all presentation sword and/or marshal sword, which were of excellent quality. From the info I could find on the net, there were two WW2 Kanetomo listed, a Chu saku listed 三輪 兼友 Miwa Kanetomo and a Jo Saku listed 桐淵 兼友 Kiribuchi Kanetomo, my blade wasn't made by some uber uber Saijo listed smith. My question is, did the Arsenals actually make tachi (not, the kai-gunto type or shinggunto with two hangers but traditional style tachi)? If so, what for? Or maybe I am wrong and it is just a gunto blade "pimped up" with tachi fittings.....

I got a rusty wak in plain saya from him this month. One of those "perfect for polishing practice, sold as is" (no, not doing it myself, don't worry). Prefectly happy with it, anyway, the guy seems honest about representation and shipping is fast. Will buy from him again.

Ouch, I almost got 2 yari from the guy. He was listing it for something like $350 for 2 yari (and one was the scarce socket type) on buy it now. Good thing my country wasn't listed on shipping location and I had to e-mail and ask hime for a shipping cost first and by the time I got the reply, someone beat me to it. Kinda feel sorry for the guy. I also notice the seller's prices on the same item jump up and down a lot, I saw a yari for 500 on buy it now, then 400 the next day, then 550 after that..... BTW what's up with having buy now and min bid price being the same?

I have a wak and the Mei says Suke Hiro. It matches the ones of Suke Hiro 2nd in Toko Taikan P322. Somehow I think it is Gi-mei considering how often his mei was faked. The polisher doing the wak (he’s almost finished) told me that it is a fine blade (he said very fine but not great) and thinks it is gi-mei too but I should look up on info about Suke Hiro’s blade. Now, I have worked out his date of birth and death, when he got his title, relationship with Suke hiro 1st but couldn’t translated the rest. I even took it to a Japanese friend of mine but she wasn’t of much help (she said too technical , even with a pic of sword part with both Japanese and English names in front of her). I know it is a lot to ask but you guys are my last hope, pretty please…..

I ALMOST bidded on it! I had it listed on my watching list and was going to bid at the last second..... Knew the tang was too short but under the impression it was shortened to make a evil tanto at one stage...... Good thing I saw this thread first, more to learn..... Saw the jumonji-yari blade too, it is at $275 and climbing, d@mn! no money.......