bigjohnshea

Compton book is now 60$ Gassan book is 40$ Facts and Fundamentals is 20$ Buy them at these prices or pay more elsewhere. You will not find better prices anywhere. Cheers,

Brian, I agree whole heartedly with much of what you said. However, the part I don't agree with (and this is really the part that makes me question the value of advocating that new collectors buy lesser quality swords) is the idea that a new collector can buy a lesser quality sword and then move it along for "no loss" after they are done studying it. In the four years of me collecting I was trying to do exactly that. Buying swords I could afford, studying them, then trading or selling them in order to acquire other blades that could be studied. I have done this with 12 swords, and out of those can I can say with truth that I didn't take a loss on perhaps two of them during the process. The system of buying then trading or reselling is DESIGNED in this hobby as a system where the seller/consignee nearly always takes a loss, unless they get lucky and buy something cheap that becomes something valuable after shinsa. Merchants usually charge 20% to resell a sword. The consignee cannot bump the value of their blade up 20% when they resell it, or the next owner bumps it up another 20% and the blade becomes unaffordable. If you look at the NMB for sale section, it is full of good and bad quality collectible items that are barely selling. When they do sell, it is nearly always at a "rock bottom", "bargain price", and we never hear the truth about what loss the seller took. In the fours years I've been collecting I have only one time arranged a successful trade that represented equal value between the blades. The other two times that I have traded swords it was to a merchant, and I was the one taking the loss on the valuation of my blade, not him ofcourse. This is not only true of lesser value blades. On two separate occassions I offered $18,000 worth of 2 NBTHK and NTHK papered swords as trade for credit towards a Juyo quality blade I would need to invest another $4-6000 into. Neither merchant wasn't interested. After discussing it with them I learned why. They know that a loss is built in for the seller. The $18,000 I invested in those swords is actually only worth $12-14,000, or perhaps less to them, particularly if they want to move the merchandise in a timely manner. Even $9,000 Tokubetsu Hozon swords are considered "mediocre" to someone who can afford Juyo swords, and for those that cannot, they have to really love something to spend $9,000 on it. So if the owner of that $9000 sword wants to resell it without waiting years for the right buyer to come out of the woodwork, they end up taking a loss. This trade and sale system you speak of, which takes place with no loss for the new collector, does not exist in my opinion. If people do not know enough about swords to know what they like, they should not buy ANYTHING given the prices that even "entry level" nihonto sell for. That is why I am at odds with the idea of advocating for "entry level" nihonto. In my opinion, there is no such thing as a mediocre sword that you do not take a loss on when you try to move it to another owner. In you want to learn what you like, go to sword shows, Find other collectors and look at their swords. Read the books. (That is if you can find the good ones without going bankrupt.) But, IMHO, telling people that they should buy mediocre blades so they can resell or trade them without a loss is just misleading. No. Why not? Because not everyobody wants to invest $500 and three months worth of time in a sword that they are trying to sell. Particularly if they are trying to sell it fast, or simply fast enough to not want to wait months to get their shinsa papers. Also, not everyone cares about shinsa for the same raason. The only reason I submit things to shinsa personally is because I believe i know when something is good quality, and I want to maximize my ability to retain value on the blade if I resell it. Not to jump back to the previous comments, but even that does not work sometimes. The last katana I put through shinsa that passed with 70 points, was offered at a bargain price here and on facebook, a rpice which represented a very minimal profit for me. It sold at a loss for me when you consider the cost of shinsa. There were dozens of people interested in it, but most of them asked me the same exact question during our discussions. "What is the absolute lowest you're willing to take for it, John?" That's what people want. They want your rock bottom price for something before they will really consider it. What did I tell them? "I'll comes down to xxxxxx for you on this blade." I didn't answer the question directly because why should people expect you to make a rock bottom offer for them when they are the buyer? My last comments on this: I recognize that I am somewhat disgruntled in this hobby right now, however, I got the swords I want and everything else is going up for sale or is up for sale already. I'm happy with that. I will take care of those blades I love and the rest will be someone elses responsibility. People who are new to this hobby should make no mistake on this topic. The system of buying and reselling swords is 100% geared for the seller (not the merchant) but the seller/consignee to take a loss. Want your own proof? Take your best sword and offer it to a mechant for another equal quality blade at equal value. Nine out of ten times you will be rejected because their business model includes you taking the loss they cannot take as a merchant. Hope everyone is having a good Monday. As good as it can be. :-) Cheers,

I think for $3100 it doesn't even matter. Put it through shinsa, and if it papers to muromachi it could still sell for closer to $5000, particularly with a full koshirae. However, I truly do not see anything in the sugata, hada, hamon, etc. the features of the blade, that indicates it cannot be late kamakura or nanbokucho. No one has yet to actually explain, with or without any certainty, why that cannot be true. Perhaps the reason is that we all have a tendency at times to let the Dunning-Kruger Effect rear its head. Which is perhaps the reason that shinsa exists in the first place. As for Sukesada, I never had a reason to think it was related and I still don't. Have not had a chance to look at the links yet. On a somewhat related topic, I am always perplexed by verterans of nihonto collecting referring to a sword as a good sword for people "starting out". Is the implication of this phrase being that new collectors should somehow be inclined to spend money on subpar swords that do not appeal to seasoned collectors? Why do people use that term? I recommended the blade because I think I'd be happy owning it, not because I think someone who knows less than me (of which there are likely few :-) ) should relish in it while I do not. Anyhow, congratulations to the winner. I hope that if they put it through shinsa we will see it on the board someday and learn what it is given the best of our knowledge. Cheers,

Always open to offers folks. Good books here in very solid condition. Hope everyone is having a great weekend. :-) Cheers,

Jim, Your choice of font is lovely. :-) The only thing that is really indicating to me that this is Muromachi and not Nambokucho is the lack of a second menuki hole. How many times have you seen a nakago from early Koto that isn't atleast machi-okure with another menuki hole? I agree that it could easily be Muromachi, but it could still be Nambokucho. As for Sukesada I have no opinion on that. I have not compared the features of this blade to his.

Lethal Beauty is sold. Thank you!

I've got the swords I want. That's what it means. :-)

URL: http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=161696517041&alt=web I've bought from this seller before. He's reliable. Cheers!

The Compton book is the soft cover edition. Low price on Amazon is $85 so $75 is not bad. :-) Cheers.

I also collect meteorites in addition to swords. If it is a less rare meteorite like Campo or Gibeon, and it is in natural patina (no treatments or removal of rust, etc.), or not particularly attractive, you could get a 5kg iron specimen (or a combination of smaller) for anywhere from $1000-$5000. It's a chunk of money, but compared to what most Nihonto cost it's not much. I recently sold a 1.2kg Uruacu iron (Brazilian) in natural patina for $250. Do the math on that and you get roughly 5kg of Uruacu in natural patina for $1000. You can get big Campo de Cielo meteorites for really good prices. Larger irons are getting harder to find though just because many countries, like Agentina where Campo comes from, have been restricting export of them. Cheers!

I once owned a Gassan Sadaharu tanto (I believe it was late shin-shinto) with NBTHK Hozon that was made with old steel from Kinpo Castle. I don't know if that qualifies as an "antique" in a market full of swords that are many hundreds or a thousand plus years old. It was definitely papered though. Cheers.

Hope everyone is having a good weekend! Here's a short list of books for sale. I'll be happy to ship these free via Domestic Book Rate within the US, but it takes forever to arrive. If you'd llike First Class, Priority, or need International service please let me know and I'll get you a qoute from USPS. Prices listed are below the lowest on Amazon. Please be assured you are getting the best deal. :-) Follow the links if you'd like to see photos. Only included one photo for the two better known books. Happy to provide more. PM me here or email bigjohnshea@yahoo.com if interested. Cheers! Nippon-to Art Swords of Japan: from the Walter A. Comptom Collection $75 https://www.dropbox.com/sh/v5vmerdphr1xxdr/AACmK5u6IDuHo_GyricnSOOva?dl=0 Facts and Fundamentals of Japanese Swords: A Collectors Guide, Nobuo Nakahara, Paul Martin translated $25 https://www.dropbox.com/sh/soffzkiz8iv32zp/AABFFhbqHW4CALxhdTDEOt-3a?dl=0 Japanese Master Swordsmiths: The Gassan Tradition, Museum of Fine Arts Boston $50 https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0dbvlihs5pn8ri1/AABVsyUwwmUmIknQ2VJBVRyCa?dl=0 Lethal Beauty: Samurai Weapons and Armor, Andreas Marks (Items displayed at the recent Detroit Institute of the Arts exhibit by the same name) $15 https://www.dropbox.com/sh/217ocdqixi1vk01/AADquhdQcBPRzkrSLI7vJdCJa?dl=0

Call me new age then because I stopped using uchiko about a year ago to clean my blades, and replaced it with microfiber towels. My last comments on this topic: The guy sent his saya to his friend to get it glued back together. Ok. None of us know the long long term consequences of that well enough to say that he will irreparably damaged his sword in the long run, and to say that we do is just silly. Let's not forget that these swords were made at one time to be soaked in blood, and smashed against armor. If you're really going to get worked up about the potential impact of dry Elmer's glue then I think you are forgetting that the blade was meant to be resilient. No, I wouldn't put one of my Tokubetsu Hozon swords I invested nearly five digits in into a shirasaya with Elmer's glue holding it together, but we're also not talking about that sword. No, I don't want his sword to be damaged, but over time if he notices a problem developing he can take steps to fix it. As a general point, I think we put much too much emphasis on making sure that EVERYTHING involving these swords is done with absolute perfection and compliance with Japanese tradition. In the long run we end up making the process of collecting so expensive, so tedious, so overwhelming that it makes it impossible to just have an old sword and not go broke owning it. It is one thing to care for a sword that is a masterwork, meant as a work of art, or that has significant value to the collecting community. It is perhaps another thing to care for a sword that is a weapon and a weapon alone. Not all Japanese swords are contributors to the art form, and not all of them need to be treated like artwork, conserved like artwork, polished by only the highest trained people (at the highest expense), put in a saya that can't possibly scratch it or cause it some harm, etc. etc. Sorry, but it's true. They don't all belong in a museum, and I learned the hard way that if you treat them all like that you end up spending alot more money than they are worth.

Brian, I agree absolutely about not preventing further damage, but it would not have been my first instinct to seek out resources to do it myself so I was not at all thinking along those lines. Thanks for the link, and the knowledge. Cheers,

Geraint, Your point about the rust is taken. Not trying to be argumentative, but it sounds like you are proposing that he should have paid shipping to and from a professional togishi (or someone equally trained) so that they can charge him maybe 300-400$ to clean and reglue a shirasaya on a blade that was free, and which he has no intention of restoring; all to avoid the potential risk that his friend (who we know nothing about the skills of) would have overglued the saya, and that rust might develop. Personally i wouldn't have glued it at all. I would have just wrapped it in cellophane and been done with it. I think worrying about the perfection of the glue on this sword's saya is like worrying about the curtains on the Titanic. Brian, My brain constantly mixes up the words kissaki and nakago. Thank you for pointing out my error. Probably won't be the last time...

It looks like the shinogi does go into the nakago a bit. The boshi is barely visible, looks like omaru or komaru, and that the kissaki could be reshaped and still retain a boshi. I think you're making the right decision just to keep it the way it is. I don't think there's anything wrong with having had someone reglue the saya with care. Worrying about scratches over time is only for swords that are in polish anyhow. There's nothing in the saya I'm sure that will damage the blade very much. Put some oil on it. Respect it the way it is. Take pleasure in its heritage and what esthetic you can see. Cheers,

George, Martin makes a fine point, as does every post above. I don't see the shinogo in the kissaki at all, and I don't think it is there. Something I wanted to add with regard to the comments about restoration is that the cost of restoration is truly only worth it for this blade if you absolutely are going to keep it. What I mean is, if this is a personal heirloom you will keep for your entire life, maybe pass down to your family members, then restoring it is totally worth it. You will be able to relish more in its beauty, and take pride in the fact that you gave new life to something that has value to your life. However, that does not mean you must restore it. More about that below. If you do not have a personal connection to this sword, and are considering it just because you have a sword, and a sword is a thing of honor that you feel some duty to restore, then you should second guess that instinct. Do not restore swords simply because they are things with unique heritage and honor. Many others swords that need to be restored and honored are out there, they are everywhere, and the future owner of this sword takes no honor in paying for your restoration costs. If you are doing it because you want to resell it for a potential profit, then think about it this way: In my opinion, the only people who make a profit on reselling swords, are people who consign swords for someone else. It's like the old axiom about making movies in Hollywood, the first rule of film production is "Never use your own money." This is particularly true in this market. There are fully papered katanas out there selling for half the price of a full restoration. Someone, somewhere took a big financial hit on that sword, and 99 out of 100 times it isn't the consignor, it's the consignee. Japanese swords have a relatively unique capacity to survive the test of time if cared for if even minimally. As a result, there is a large market surrounding the restoration of them, a market which scarcely exists with swords from other origins. Try finding a Viking sword that can be restored to its former beauty after years of not having been cared for. It doesn't exist. Does that sword not still hold the unique interests of the history of that culture? Or that warrior who might have fought with it? Ofcourse. Swords do not have to be perfectly restored, papered by shinsa, and equisitely beautiful to be appreciated. I've only been collecting swords for about 4 years. I have much to learn myself. However, I have learned alot of hard financial lessons during that time, and often those lessons came after the "good advice" of people who had a financial motive. Do not repeat my mistakes or the mistakes of those who advise you above. Hope you have a great week. Cheers,

Ah I see what you are saying Jean. Many thanks. I will revise my listing to include that possibility. Either way I think people are getting a decent sword at a more than fair price for what I listed it at. So hopefully the name or date change won't hinder people too much. Cheers,

You think they'll change the smith Jean? Or did you mean "change the smith" by changing the date? I just put this for sale on the board here and I want to make sure I'm not misleading anyone.

Here is the worrksheet as promised. Hope everyone is doing well. Cheers, Edit: No idea why the photo is rotated counter clockwise. Sorry. Not sure how to fix this.

Thanks again to everyone contributing to my knowledge.

The sword is mumei possibly secondary to some significant rust damage on the nakago. I pulled the photos from the dropbox link above if you want to see more. It is also machi-okure, likely for the same reason, but otherwise ubu.

So the three swords I'm keeping are these. 1) A full size "nagamaki" made by a US smith with a theme addressing the memory of my father. Not a "nihonto" but important to me and beautiful none the less. I did say I was keeping three blades, not three nihonto. 2) A mumei nagamaki naoshi wakizashi with a Honami Koson Sayagaki attributing to the Shizu Kaneuji school of Kamakura era. It has not gone through shinsa. It was purchased from a reputable merchant in Japan. I studied the Sayagaki of Koson, as well as the features of the Shizu Kaneuji school and made rigid comparison. A great majority of the features needed to attribute it to that school are present in the blade. I am happy with this. I may someday submit it for shinsa but what I have satisfies me. It likely would not satisfy all others, but it satisfies me. Additionally, given the price of even a T-Hozon level Masamune Jutetsu blade, or even a blade by a student of a Masamune Jutetsu smith, this is likely as close as I will get to owning one with a solid form of provenance, and which more than stands up to the reference material available about the school. 3) A mumei katana with Hozon papers attributing it to Koto era Sengo School of Ise Provence. This blade is actually still under the process of purchase. and on hold for me now. I have saved about 80% of the money i need to buy it, and I'm hoping the sale of the sword we discussed above will give me the rst of what I need to finish the deal, or atleast most of what I need. If not, i have other irons in the fire to cover the remaining cost. As I was saying about the Shizu school wak above, given the price of 1st, 2nd or 3rd generation Murmasa katanas (not just Sengo school), this is likely as close as I will get to a Muramasa katana at my current and future projected income levels. This blade does have the "mirror image hamon" that is more representative of the first three generations of Muramasa, but due to other variations in the blade the attribution to a specific smith in Sengo school could not be made. I agree whole heartedly with what you said in your last comment Jean. I wanted the paper 1) as a plus for resale, and 2) as a form of comfort for my buying. The second also being a subconscious effort to reaffirm my capacity to spot a halfway decent blade. I also wanted it as a form of provenance for the blade itself, so that it does not exist without future owners having some paper giving it provenance. The first blade I mentioned above is not elligible for shinsa. The third blade has already got one that I'm happy with. The second blade has a reliable form of provenance and seems to fit the bill in terms of its characteristics. Shinsa adds certainty to the second blade if it passes in keeping with the sayagaki, but as I have no interest in reselling it, and I am myself satisfied with it, shinsa adds little value to me personally. Cheers.

Jean, The truth is, from my point of view, as long as the school is accurate and the time period is koto, I'm actually happy. I'm not planning to keep the blade anywhow. If this makes me less of a refined nihonto collector, then I guess that's what I am. I've always been more of an enthusiast of nihonto and less of a student. I'm a student of medicine, and trust me that takes up enough of my time. My brain is tired at the end of the day, everyday. Studying nihonto after a 12-15hr day at the hospital is not productive. I have to learn nihonto passively, and if I'm lucky I might get some time in to read on the weekends between studying for my board exams. Going on the idea of getitng better clarity, what can I do about this other than submit the blade to shinsa again and hope for better clarification from another team member? Sounds like 400$ potentially spent on getting nearly the same information I already have, or slightly different information with a date that complies with the reference books, which you have been so kind to assist me with. I don't see how that really benefits me if I already trust the reference books? And I do trust them. In other words, what can I really do to get more clarity out of this other than resubmitting and hoping for more clarity? Can I send it back to the NTHK and say 'Please, I humbly request that you give me more clarity on this?" That doesn't seem like it will work, but maybe it will. Like you said, atleast it's an attribution with the 70 points, and while it is nothing special, at least it is a relatively attractive authenthic nihonto. :-) Anyhow, that aside, I'm planning to sell this sword ASAP at a bargain to a buyer. I'm not keeping it or doing any work on it. It is what it is. In terms of the sales price, I don't expect much more from the buyer than what a 70 point katana would get with an old cracked shirasaya in a decent old polish. I have three blades I'm keeping. My four others, this included, are going someplace else, hopefully to be taken care of there. I will post the shinsa paperwork ASAP. Hopefully that will clarify it more. Thank you again for all your help. Cheers,

Jean, Yes I will once it arrives. It's on its way from Chicago now. Will be a few days before I can post it. I asked about this to the person handling the sword for me and he rechecked the date. The sheet does indeed say Eisho. I guess we'll have to wait to look at it. Honestly it makes no difference to me if it's 1504, 1570 or 1573. I'd like the Origami to be accurate but otherwise I'm happy with the attribution. Will post the worksheet ASAP. Thanks. Cheers,