like a ball lost in tall weeds

[robsawitski]

Wow. This translation stuff isn't easy!

 

Hi everyone. I just bought my first signed nihonto. It's a wakazashi - fairly short and wide, in shirasaya.

 

I thought I'd just flip through some of my books, find the characters and work my translation. Not so. I really need some guidance.

 

How do you identify a nihonto's smith and date? Is there a particular strategy? Are the characters in a particular order, e.g. smith name, year the blade was created, name of the blade's owner, etc.?

 

I've attached a photo of the tang below. I'd really appreciate any advice you would give.

 

I should mention (now that I read the forum guide), I do not intend on reselling. I think it's extremely cool and would just like to know more about it.

 

Thanks,

Rob Sawitski (Detroit)

[robsawitski]

Ok, I just read the rest of the forum guide. I didn't realize there were links to other kanji resources. Based on the three books that I have, I haven't been able to find out anything. Please let me have another crack at translation using the links in the message board. This is like a very cool mystery.

 

I would appreciate any suggestions you folks might have. Does the "signature" follow any particular pattern such as smith's name, date of production, region produced, customer, etc.? Or do signatures just depend on what the smith wants to list in an order of priority he determines?

 

Thanks,

Rob Sawitski

[Veli]

Hi Rob!

 

The signature structure in this case is XX Z YY where XX is province, Z has a meaning "resident of XX" and YY is the smith's art name (this is a very usual signature structure). Hope this helps. The kanji in this case do not exactly look like printed versions! If you feel frustrated after a few hours of trying, please ask for more hints!

 

BR, Veli

[robsawitski]

Thank you very much for the help.

 

After identifying the smith's name and his province of residence, is it possible to estimate the year the sword was made?

[Jean]

A spread at least

[robsawitski]

Great. Thanks.

 

Would it be appropriate to post my guess on the translation and ask for feedback? This is the first time I've ever tried to translate something (i.e. I feel quite ignorant) so it'll probably be wrong.

 

Rob Sawitski

[Jean]

Of course you can and nobody will laugh, my own level is below zero.

[k morita]

Hi Rob,

Challenge again. You can do it.

Last two Kanji is smith name.

[robsawitski]

Wow! That's cool. I would have never found those characters without you pointing out what they are supposed to look like. Thank you very much Morita-San.

 

The second character doesn't even resemble what is on the tang!

 

I've seen pictures of several other signatures that look much better in terms of quality (I.e. The characters on the tang look very close to the characters in the books).

 

Is it safe to assume the quality of the signature is representative of the quality of the smith?

[robsawitski]

Ok. I think I have it....

 

Was the nihonto made by the swordsmith Uji Tsugu of the Toshu Provence (the southern sea road)?

 

Rob Sawitski

[k morita]

Great! You did it!

 

The mei says "Doshu ju Ujitsugu". 土州住氏次

Doshu means Tosa province in Shikoku.

[robsawitski]

Thank you Morita-san.

 

Now I have a thousand more questions, but I don't want to abuse your help.

 

Perhaps you could point me to step two.

 

Who was Ujitsubu? How do I reaserch him? How do I determine what school he was affiliated with? How do I determine if he was well-known or just an average (or even a poor) smith? How do I determine the age of the nihonto? Why is the mei on the wrong side of the tang (if the nihonto was worn blade side up, the mei would not be visible if the handle was removed)? So many questions....

 

I fear step two is about reading the nihonto itself (e.g. the sugata, hamon, hada, etc.).

 

Any suggestions?

 

Rob Sawitski

[Jamie]

Morita San,

Thanks for your help. I too have been playing along. It's the first one i have gotten close to correct. I missed the top Kanji though.

[robsawitski]

Hi Jamie,

 

I wouldn't have even come close to any of them if Morita-San hadn't helped with giving me good kanji to research.

 

Rob Sawitski

[Veli]

Rob,

 

Here's some info (from Hawley's Japanese swordsmiths) of the smiths who signed with these kanji.

 

It is often the case that you (unless you are a native speaker) cannot find the kanji from on-line or printed dictionaries. But after staring at hundreds or thousands of real signatures, you gradually start to memorize the different ways the kanji can be carved. Yumoto's book (The Samurai Sword) has a nice little table of writing forms that is often of help to me, even in this case! This is not easy, but a lot of fun! This forum is a great place to learn, too. I usually read through all the translation questions to keep learning... But finally, you cannot do this without a good library!

 

BR, Veli

[robsawitski]

Thanks Veli. May I ask, how do I determine which Ujitsugu signed this blade? There are three Ujitsugus listed: one from 1688 (Tosa, Toshu ju Kaibu Ujitsugu), one from 1844 (Tosa, Toshu ju Ujitsugu), and one from 1848 (Tosa, Toshu Kuzume ju Ujitsugu).

 

Thanks Rob Sawitski

[robsawitski]

Thanks to your help figuring out the mei, I have started a new topic in the nihonto forum. Now that I know who and where the blade was made, I'd love to know when it was made as well as more about the smith (any school affiliation).

 

Please see the post "Who was Ujitsugu?" in the Nihonto section.

 

Thanks,

Rob Sawitski

[k morita]

Hi Rob,

#1:

It is not a mistake though Mr,Hawley is pronouncing Tosa province as " Toshu " on his book.

However, it is pronounced "Doshu" on Japanese dictionary, not "Toshu".

 

#2

[robsawitski]

Thank you Morita-san for your information.

 

Wow, it seems like translating the mei is the easy part. Tracking down the age of the nihonto is going to be the hard part.

 

I don't have access to a big nihonto library. But it sounds like many of the people on this forum do have access to big librarys but haven't found much on this mei.

 

Also, it sounds like there could be a few tricky items with the nihonto, e.g. a tachi-side mei and sugata that could be 1500s or 1800s.

 

If you or anyone else reading this post would, please recommend a good way to continue my research on this nihonto.

 

Thanks so much for all the help,

Rob Sawitski