Sword by Noshu seki ju kanemoto ?

[bullpuppy]

I bought this a little while ago. The owner said that it is a shinto and the inscription reads

 

Noshu seki ju kanemoto

 

The blade is mukume and masame hada with the temper in a nioi base. . The cutting edge is 27-3/4.

 

The pictures are at http://bladerunnerswords.spaces.msn.com/

 

I did some research below on Kanemoto but I trying to figure out which Kanemoto made this one.

 

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:bzj ... =clnk&cd=1.

 

 

I did some research and found the follow information on the group of makers.

 

http://www.nmcollector.net/Kanemoto/Kanemoto.htm

http://www.setocut.co.jp/sword1_6.html

http://www.samuraisword.com/nihontodisp ... moto_2.htm

http://bladerunnerswords.spaces.msn.com/

[Rich T]

even though the photo's aren't great, that this is a Showato or gendai blade. Circa WW2.

 

Rich

[bullpuppy]

Was it the mei that indicated that or the blade? The length at 27 3/4 seems too long for a WWii blade.

[Stephen]

[Rich T]

by the mei I wnt on that, and I have seen longer swords, 26, 27 and 28 incehes from WW2 a few times. I could of course be wrong,

 

cheers

 

ZRich

[Darcy]

Could you post more pictures, especially larger pictures of the nakago and mei? These are a bit of a mess. There are some numerals written onto the nakago that are used to match it up with WWII fittings being made for it.

 

However, the style is completely typical for Muromachi period Kanemoto, and the sanbonsugi continues through the boshi which is also correct.

 

If a WWII smith made it he copied the old style.

 

The nakago though to me seems to be suriage, the bottom is cut off in the tiny picture that is there. That would seem to indicate it is older work that had the end of the nakago lopped off to fit with WWII koshirae.

 

Basically I'd like to see something with enough resolution and clarity to make out yasurime and chisel strokes in the mei.

 

Also hold the blade out, edge down, and measure the width of the nakago at its widest point. Then measure the kasane (thickness) of the sword about a half an inch above the machi. If this is a recently made blade they should be about equal, the sword not having seen many polishes. If it is 500 years old this should be visible by a narrowing of the kasane above the machi. So the nakago tends to be the widest part of an old sword as it has not been polished ever. Some blades though can be in a state of nearly perfect preservation so this is not a guaranteed technique... generally though it is a "rule in" for a blade being older vs. "ruling out" it being older. That is, if there is no loss of width, this by itself should be considered inconclusive unless it is supported by other observations.

[bullpuppy]

Thanks Darcy for your insights. I will get some better better pictures shortly. The HABAKI is stuck on so the mesurements are a little more dificult. The widest part of the nakago 7.20 mm. Measuring the widest part on the 1/2 foward of the back notch is 6.15 mm. I cannot make out the yasurime even under madification due to the rust. The chisel marks on the mei can only be seem under magnification also. I will try to figure out a way to get sharper pictures of these.

[bullpuppy]

I tried put together some better pictures. Tang is covered with too much old black rust too get anything better. Are there any experts in the LA area that would like to take a look?

 

http://bladerunnerswords.spaces.msn.com

[Darcy]

Well that's a bit better... still making my eyes pop out trying to focus on them.

 

The tang is not suriage but it bent badly I guess... looks like 90 degrees? Ouch.

 

I agree with Rich on the strokes on the mei, they look like gendaito. It is done in traditional Kanemoto style though, so is a nice piece to maybe fix up a bit. I would be really cautious about undoing that bend. I'd give it to a polisher to do, I don't know if that much bend can be undone.

[bullpuppy]

The pictures are a problem but thanks. Just out of curiosity what was the translation on the mei? My understanding from your comments is that they would mark the nakado when they did the fittings. And since the mei looks like it was applied at the time the blade was made then it was made during WWII.

 

I don't know if it would be better to bend it back or, perhaps file it flat. Very strange that it ended up that way. I didn't pay that much for the blade and I bought fittings to make a Koshirae. The original fittings are mint military and the handle fits tightly so it was probably fitted that way. The polish is pretty good on it now and probably not worth the investment.

 

So it sounds that the consensus is that it is not a Shinto blade but a gendaito done in traditional Kanemoto style. It probably would take a Shinsa to determine the maker. I wonder if was made by a generation of the Kanemoto group. Maybe the 27th?

 

http://www.setocut.co.jp/sword1_6.html

 

 

I forgot to mention that it is extremely sharp. The sharpest one I have, in my limited experience ever have handled.

 

 

I forgot to mention that it is extreamly sharp

[bullpuppy]

Results from Chicago Shinsa. It turns out to me a later generation Kanemoto

 

http://www.fototime.com/inv/EF2A44827716497