Help identifying Kyu Gunto sword

[Ghaad47]

Hello,

I recently bought Kyu Gunto sword on local auction platform and I'd love to get some additional info on it. I am absolute amateur when it comes to swords  and all I learned comes from maybe half of hour googling before buying it. Seller described is as 19th century Kyu Gunto, but I know it's always good idea to take what sellers say with grain of salt. He also sent me picture from book showing handle with same pattern as mine, that one supposedly belonged to general officer.

 

Blade seems to be plated (?), but I'd say it was sharpened. There is Habaki, but blade is probably machine made. I also don't see any way to take it apart (I guess it's held together by the pin on top?). I know it's not very valuable sword, especially because of its shape, but I am fine with that. 

I'd be grateful for any more information - especially general dating, if it was dress or combat sword?

 

Best regards,

Jakub

[Ghaad47]

Here is the picture from book by Fuller & Gregory, which seller used as source of his claims. I doubt mine belonged to general officer though, as I'd assume such sword would have higher quality blade.

[Bruce Pennington]

Jakub,

You have a Type 19 dress sword.  They were not combat blades.  Just worn for other occasions.  I haven't read about this, and will have to research it, unless one of the other guys that study these can help out first. (hope so!)

 

Interesting to see it had been painted black.  We have many swords, of all types, that had been painted black and have no idea why they did it.

[Ghaad47]

15 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Jakub,

You have a Type 19 dress sword.  They were not combat blades.  Just worn for other occasions.  I haven't read about this, and will have to research it, unless one of the other guys that study these can help out first. (hope so!)

 

Interesting to see it had been painted black.  We have many swords, of all types, that had been painted black and have no idea why they did it.

Thanks! I am not sure it was painted black, for me it looks more as if some ground paint was used between gilding and bronze/brass. As there is not much gold left on mine, it started peeking through. It also might be just oxidation, but I am not sure.

[Scogg]

The backstrap looks like the police logo to me. Could be a police super intendant dress saber.
@Conway

General grade would have the tortoiseshell handle material. I think yours would be company grade or field grade, although I'm not confident how those rankings work within the Japanese Police forces.

See similar logo, on this sword sold on the forum years ago:
 

[Bruce Pennington]

Yes,

Your reference looks to have been from Fuller's earlier book.  In his latest one, page 43, he says it is likely a superintendent sword:

 

Another way to check is the sakura (flower) on the side 'ear' of the backstrap.  If it is 5 petals (which is seems to be) then it's police.

[Ghaad47]

16 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Yes,

Your reference looks to have been from Fuller's earlier book.  In his latest one, page 43, he says it is likely a superintendent sword:

 

Another way to check is the sakura (flower) on the side 'ear' of the backstrap.  If it is 5 petals (which is seems to be) then it's police.

Yes, seems to be match! Thanks a lot. A bit of shame it isn't military, but I still really like its look.

Edited May 15 by Ghaad47

[Bruce Pennington]

27 minutes ago, Ghaad47 said:

A bit of shame it isn't military,

Still, it's part of the history of Japan moving to Western styled military and weapons.  The police, forestry, prison, etc systems all used the same manufacturers that made all the military swords.  Only difference was the emblems they used.

[Conway]

I’m afraid I’m not much help with police swords since they are outside my collecting scope. Unless the description in Fuller and Gregory is superseded by information in Dawson’s Cyclopedia, I would go with the superintendent grade designation.  

[Scogg]

Thanks Conway and Bruce. I’ve dug out my copy of Dawsons to refresh my memory on these police sabers. 
 

@Ghaad47, according to Dawsons on pages 300-313, your sword with that half-decorated backstrap is a sword for police lieutenants. The police logo on yours looks like what Dawson describes as a 16 ray badge, found on lieutenant and superintendent swords. 
 

Whereas a sword with a fully decorated backstrap (similar to the army field grade counterparts), are for police superintendents. These are shown on dawsons page 314-315.

 

*Dawson, Jim. Swords of Imperial Japan, 1868–1945. Cyclopedia ed. Newnan, Ga.: Stenger-Scott Publishing, 2007.

All the best,

-Sam
 

[Ghaad47]

Thanks Scogg!