Paper level for big names / attribution

[klee]

Good Evening 

 

How do the high end collectors generally read into big names attached to mid level papers ?

 

The 2 examples I see right now that jump out is the Den Go thats been talked about before 

 

https://www.aoijapan.com/katana-：mumei-unsigned-den-gonbthk-tokubetsu-hozon-token/

 

And a Shintogo Kunimitsu tachi 

 

https://eirakudo.shop/105943

 

With both big names having only TokuHo, is it reasonable to assume that both blades stayed at TokuHo due to the high probability of them being re-attributed to a lesser name if it went Juyo ? And is there definitive right or wrong path for an owner to take ? i.e try for Juyo or leave it at TokuHo

 

Thank you for any insight as im not familiar with the general politics in the papering side when it comes to titanic names 

 

-Kevin

 

[Robert S]

Or with those names, going from TokuHo to Juyo simply wouldn't provide any increase in value.  In cases like these I suspect the value's in the name, not the paper.

[Julien]

Since Jūyō shinsa operates differently and is significantly more expensive than Hozon or Tokubetsu Hozon, it can sometimes feel somewhat unpredictable. If a session is particularly strong, with many exceptional blades submitted, the competition becomes very intense, and a blade may fail to pass if it does not stand out even among already outstanding works. So, it may not pass the first time, but could be resubmitted a second, third time... As a result, the process can be quite time/cost consuming for dealers.
And as Robert pointed out, if the name and attribution stand out already, it can be enough, even without Jūyō papers or above... 

Edited 16 hours ago by Julien

[Jussi Ekholm]

I am almost as far away from high end collector as you can be but I have spent lot of time with Jūyō data. First of all as a disclaimer I have to say I don't really like either of the swords.

 

The den Gō should in my mind be a slam dunk for Jūyō - Date family ownership, excellent polish, Kanzan Sayagaki, Tanobe Sayagaki. Still every year I know that items that are in my mind bound to pass fail, and some other items that are unimpressive to me pass. The mumei Shintōgo Kunimitsu katana just passed Tokubetsu Hozon in 2025. Now take the following what I will write with a big grain of salt but I have sometimes really felt that way, just as a disclaimer I am not quality focused collector but historical.

 

If you throw away the NBTHK papers attributing to Shintōgo Kunimitsu, would you pay 7,500,000 yen for that mumei sword? In my own opinion the NBTHK attribution sometimes carry too large value but market works how it works. Of course the fine workmanship of Shintōgo can not really be seen in few pictures. Still if I saw that mumei sword looking like it looks on the pictures I would just skip it without really even second thoughts about it, even if the price would be extremely lower than it currently is.

 

I know it is a controversial take but hopefully it can get the discussion going.