Gunpowder flasks/primer flasks antique or vintage?

[arilar]

Won a handful of supposed gunpowder flasks at an auction as a part from a collection of different Japanese items. No muzzleloaded weapons at this auction.

I am a beginner in this field so found this forum to lean on with hopefully answers on this flasks/boxes. Have been an active shooter with Japanese muzzleloaders since a while though. This kind of accessories almost never occure on auctions that I attend. On one picture western gunpowder and primer flasks for comparison.

The box measures 11x8x4 cm.

 

 

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Hi Lars, thanks for posting your nice collection. Western powder flasks usually had a better measuring system incorporated into their necks or spouts!

 

We have a thread running on accessories for the Tanegashima, but I will post some typical Japanese powder flasks here if you like.

(If you can find a copy of 'The Ogawa Collection', it will show you a large variety of them. He donated his collection to the Meirin Gakusha Museum in Hagi, Yamaguchi Prefecture.)

https://www.city.hagi.lg.jp/site/meiringakusha/

 

The black leather covered copper box above looks increasingly like a water canteen from a Nobento travelling picnic set. The hole at the corner is an indication, and the central hole would be to allow air in as you pour out the water. The bone/antler plugs are a later creation. Dealers will often sell these as 'powder flasks'.

See for example:

https://auctions.afimg.jp/m415446915/ya/image/m415446915.3.jpg

 

[arilar]

Thanks Piers! Make sense. Yes the plugs is very much not the best and felt out of place. Then I have a neat picnic accessorie for future sunny summerdays!!

Will shortly continue with next item from the same auction lot.

[arilar]

Next is this bamboo container wirh a leather pouch attached. Still some blackpowder left inside. The plug also works to measure right amount for loading. Bamboo powderflask 34 cm long. 

Any info on this item welcomed!

 

[Bugyotsuji]

All good! 
This kind of long thin bamboo blackpowder container is one style that was probably pushed through the obi to carry in the same manner as a Tantō.

Although long, they do not hold a large quantity of powder, which tells you the gun was a smallbore long gun, probably for a Matagi hunter shooting bird and small game.
Powder left in the flask. OK.

No ball in the bag?
 

PS The top central plug has come loose and needs gluing in place. The cap should not allow ingress of rainwater.

[arilar]

Thanks a lot for wonderful info! Well, I rarely wear my obi outside kyudo practice but I like the shape of the gunpowder flask regards.

Unfortunately no ball in the bag....

 

Edited December 17 by arilar

[arilar]

Next is 20 cm long with a coork plug. Covered with leather but dont know on what. Small rests of blackpowder inside so probably a powder flask. Any thoughts?

 

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Hmmm… don’t know what others might say, but it doesn’t look Japanese to me. It does not really follow the structure of Japanese flasks. The work is not neat, not tight enough, IMHO.

Continental, Mongol, Tibet, S E Asia?

Interesting in its own right, and surely worth delving further.

[arilar]

Haha! Two powder flasks out of three items. And one Japanese!! Not that bad for a Japanese rookie collector.....

Soon gonna expose one more flask.....

[arilar]

Next up for challenge!

Pretty sure a powder flask. But Japanese? Measures 12 cm in heigh, 10 cm wide at base and aprox. 6 cm thick.

 

[Bugyotsuji]

That is a Japanese kinchaku purse, to hold zeni cash coins etc., with rudimentary netsuke and ojime

(And a powder flask inside it…!?!?!)

Someone combined the two!

[arilar]

50 minutes ago, Bugyotsuji said:

That is a Japanese kinchaku purse, to hold zeni cash coins etc., with rudimentary netsuke and ojime

(And a powder flask inside it…!?!?!)

Someone combined the two!

Woow! Still Japanese!!! Good enough for me. Maybe I will change to a nicer but newly produced netsuke just for fun. Of course could be to much for hardcore netsuke collectors. I know how picky they can be......

[arilar]

Thank you again for your patience and your willingness to share your knowledge Piers. Here is my last object. Maybe Japanese, maybe not. Maybe gunpowder related, maybe not.

Very lightweighted. Both sides the same. 7,5 cm diam.

Here compared to prime flasks from Le Page, Paris and James Dixon & Sons, England.

 

[Brian]

I LOVE that Dixon flask. What size is it?

[arilar]

26 minutes ago, Brian said:

I LOVE that Dixon flask. What size is it?

Its a cuty! Just 90 mm from tip to toe. Belongs to a very unusual pair of cased percussionpistols manufactured by a wellknown swedish gunmaker in Stockholm. In continental style but with a swedish touch. Extremely rare. Copper flasks in this style never produced in Sweden as I know it. I am a bit anglophile when it comes to muzzleloaders. British flintlock pistol from time 1780-1820 especially. Those kind of pistols I compete with.

Edited Wednesday at 06:30 PM by arilar

[Brian]

Yeah, would go so well with a small cased pocket pistol. Really nice bag flask.

[Bugyotsuji]

Sweet little colllection, Lars. Thank you for showing them.

The ‘last’ one 95% passes the construction test for a Japanese ‘kōyaku’ priming flask. It is in such good condition that it could almost be new. Without taking it in hand I cannot be 100% sure, but if we give it the benefit of the doubt then it may well be a high quality primer flask in gilded leather. The body and the pins look right. 
(The photos are fuzzy, though. When you remove the pins, does the spout assembly pull out? What is the spout made of, and does it look painted? Is it missing its little cap?)

[arilar]

17 hours ago, Bugyotsuji said:

Sweet little colllection, Lars. Thank you for showing them.

The ‘last’ one 95% passes the construction test for a Japanese ‘kōyaku’ priming flask. It is in such good condition that it could almost be new. Without taking it in hand I cannot be 100% sure, but if we give it the benefit of the doubt then it may well be a high quality primer flask in gilded leather. The body and the pins look right. 
(The photos are fuzzy, though. When you remove the pins, does the spout assembly pull out? What is the spout made of, and does it look painted? Is it missing its little cap?)

Once again a big thank you! I dived into this collectors field with absolutely no knowledge. Guess that the collector this items came from during a period also lacked knowledge. That reflects the diversity in quality among my five first items. Really had a lot of fun with my little "picnic box" transformed to a 17th century powder flask!! When examined by me now so obvious!!!!

This last item, when explained by you, is 100 % made out of......plastic!!!!!! But not recently. Guess 1960-70 plastic. A true souvenier item. Not as the more "falsification" produced powder box from the picnic water thing.

Very much appreciate your gentle way to lead me forward. Remember when I bought a few netsuke from a local auction (of course chinese newly made tourist object) and asked about them on an esteemed internet forum. My mistake. ........

Next time similar items will emerge I am gonna be MUCH more prepared. 

Have some Japanese matchlock weapons to present. Hopefully real deal....but you never know.....

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Looking forward to seeing whatever you have, Lars. "Fer better or fer wusser" as my Scottish mother used to say.

Thank you for your frankness and willingness to share and learn. Really refreshing!

[Bugyotsuji]

Today at auction I bought a box of powder flasks without having had a close look at them. Sadly there was little in there of any real age or value.
I’ll clean them up, make some replacements for the missing parts and then (with the others I bought recently) probably pop most of them back into another auction.

[arilar]

On 12/20/2025 at 1:36 PM, Bugyotsuji said:

Today at auction I bought a box of powder flasks without having had a close look at them. Sadly there was little in there of any real age or value.
I’ll clean them up, make some replacements for the missing parts and then (with the others I bought recently) probably pop most of them back into another auction.

Isnt it interesting that even after decades of collecting you still makes this mistakes? I do it in another field of collecting once and then. Only difference from before is that I now more like laughs at myself compared to the annoying felling that caught me before. Is it because of some sort of wisdom or purely because of growing old.......?

[Bugyotsuji]

The guy selling had these in a box which he wouldn’t show anyone. I was the highest bidder, on a gamble.

 

As you can see, only about 65-70% is OK. There was one more ‘powder flask’ in the box which I gave to someone.

The long bamboo flask had a strange metallic cartridge cap, which I suddenly realized was the mouthpiece of a kiseru! That went straight into the scrap metals box.

 

[Bugyotsuji]

So, removing the botch jobs, three out, realistically we are down to these four.
Two coarse powder flasks, a crow’s beak ball dispenser and a regular ball bag.  The ‘ruffs’ on the black lacquer flask are quite roughly cut. Not Daimyo quality!
Now I need to make a measuring cap for the bamboo flask. 
 

 

[John C]

One man's trash is another man's treasure. I would be over the moon if I found something like that. That kind of stuff just isn't floating around in my neck of the woods.

 

John C.

[Matsunoki]

Sometimes, searching and then finding “stuff” like this is far more enjoyable than shelling out big bucks for something that was sitting highly visible in the spotlight. Wish I woz there🙂