Custom Gunto, tachi adapted for war or a modern Frankenstein?

[Guest When Necessary]

I just saw this koshirae on Yahoo! Auction and it has me perplexed.

The ito and Sageo look recent but the other components appear antique and of good quality. If it wasn't for the presence of a military style ashi, I would simply have thought this to be a rather flashy handachi mounting but, even then, some elements don't add up. For example, there is a kogai-bitsu in the saya but no corresponding recess in the kuchigane.

 

Would be interested to hear what the military specialists think about this one.

[Geraint]

Dear Dee.

 

A longshot from me.  I cannot see a space for a kogai though there is a slot for a kozuka and a corresponding hitsu in the tsuba.  One of the seppa is gold foiled, the other looks like a replacement.  I agree the binding is not a good look for this sword.  The hanging ring appears to be integral with a fitting that encircles the saya and includes a kurikata, all in nanako.  One possible direction is that around the Boshin war samurai were wearing Western dress, or an approximation thereof, and sometimes rather unusual sword hangers.  I wonder if this fitting could have been made to allow both a traditional position in the obi and a European style carry with the edge down, either as a modification to an existing koshirae or perhaps as the koshirae was assembled.

Have a look at the first picture in this link, https://sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/51310/samurai-guns

Also this wonderful example, https://www.toukenkomachi.com/index_en_tachi&katana_A040720.html

 

You might also search around toppei koshirae, a form I enjoy.

 

Edit to follow on from Marcin's post.  I do not think the example in Dee's post has anything to do with Gunto, unless of course it has a Showa blade.

 

All the best.

Edited October 3 by Geraint

[Rawa]

Similar case? With Showa Okimitsu [RJT]

https://www.nipponto.com/Sword/detailokimitsu.html

 

Edited October 3 by Rawa

[Guest When Necessary]

On 10/3/2025 at 11:16 PM, Geraint said:

Dear Dee.

 

A longshot from me.  I cannot see a space for a kogai though there is a slot for a kozuka and a corresponding hitsu in the tsuba.  One of the seppa is gold foiled, the other looks like a replacement.  I agree the binding is not a good look for this sword.  The hanging ring appears to be integral with a fitting that encircles the saya and includes a kurikata, all in nanako.  One possible direction is that around the Boshin war samurai were wearing Western dress, or an approximation thereof, and sometimes rather unusual sword hangers.  I wonder if this fitting could have been made to allow both a traditional position in the obi and a European style carry with the edge down, either as a modification to an existing koshirae or perhaps as the koshirae was assembled.

Have a look at the first picture in this link, https://sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/51310/samurai-guns

Also this wonderful example, https://www.toukenkomachi.com/index_en_tachi&katana_A040720.html

 

You might also search around toppei koshirae, a form I enjoy.

 

Edit to follow on from Marcin's post.  I do not think the example in Dee's post has anything to do with Gunto, unless of course it has a Showa blade.

 

All the best.

Dear Geraint,

 

Apologies for the late response

and many thanks for your very astute observations and comments - they were much appreciated.

(I always get the kogai and kozuka sides mixed up but I really thought I'd gotten it right this time!)
 

The two reasons I thought this may have had some connection to the Showa military was 1: the gunto-style hanging ring is in addition to a normal kurigata (they are actually the same fitting) and 2: also the mounts at either end on the tsuka and saya are the absolute spitting image of the standard design you find on a gunto. I guess this could be the original design which inspired the new army sword and I'm simply getting it the wrong way round.

(I'd be interested to hear what John @PNSSHOGUN thinks of this.)

 

Thank you for the links, Geraint - they were very interesting as I'm particularly focussed on the Bakumatsu era. 😁

 

Best wishes,

Dee

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Agree with Geraint, Shin Shinto period Koshirae in a fairly standard Handachi design. The Tsuka Ito is pretty horrid and detracts greatly from an otherwise OK Koshirae. 

 

Not quite sure the exact Tachi Koshirae the Shin Gunto was based off, but it was likely more of a classic Tachi design similar to the Gensui-To. 

[Guest When Necessary]

49 minutes ago, PNSSHOGUN said:

Agree with Geraint, Shin Shinto period Koshirae in a fairly standard Handachi design. The Tsuka Ito is pretty horrid and detracts greatly from an otherwise OK Koshirae. 

 

Not quite sure the exact Tachi Koshirae the Shin Gunto was based off, but it was likely more of a classic Tachi design similar to the Gensui-To. 

Thank you for coming straight back John.

The Shin Shinto period was very odd in its tastes sometimes. I don't like the combined kurigata/ suspension ring as the two together look very ungainly. I also presume the ito and sageo are very modern (or else the sword originally belonged  to the Bashou clan).

[EGB]

 

Just found another one of these. This one at least has a better description of the history of this particular koshirae. 
 

“The koshirae for this blade is wonderful. This is an issaku handachi koshirae made by Koryusai Nobuyoshi, for a Samurai of the Hattori clan. Nobuyoshi was active around 1850. The fuchi and tsuba both are signed by Koryusai Nobuyoshi. The kuruma (cart wheel) kamon of the Hattori clan is present on the fuchi, kashira and ko-jiri. So we have a rare example of a complete and original issaku koshirae that we can date based on the makers active period and we know what family owned the blade based on the mon. This koshirae and blade have a combined empirical importance that is so elusive to obtain - the true origin of a blades complete koshirae and therefore a true fact window for the history of the blade.”