Marcus Devonport Posted Monday at 02:35 PM Report Posted Monday at 02:35 PM (edited) Hi All, Starting a thread, following on a previous post in the Tosogu section. Was hoping I could get some thoughts on my latest acquisition- an O-Suriage Wakizashi that came to me in rather high-end koshirae. Any signature which it may once have held has been lost to shortening, although Im hoping there may be enough signs to point towards an attribution to any particular school. It has some of the classic hallmarks of Bizen-den swords, although Im curious what others might see in the blade. I've attached images, which may be split across multiple entries due to size. Thanks all, look forward to hearing your thoughts and maybe an attribution of your own. - Marcus. Edited Monday at 03:14 PM by Marcus Devonport Improved image quality 1 Quote
Lewis B Posted Monday at 02:46 PM Report Posted Monday at 02:46 PM Very nice what appears to be midare-utsuri. Since utsuri is said to have disappeared after the late Muromachi, its presence would date the blade to end of the Muromachi at the latest. I'm not very familiar with Bizenden so curious to hear what others think. I think I can spot a couple of fingerprints so I would wipe the blade carefully with a soft lens cloth and apply the thinnest coating of oil to slow down oxidation. 1 Quote
Rivkin Posted Monday at 02:54 PM Report Posted Monday at 02:54 PM It is excellent. It can be many things, but my feeling this is Oei to Bunmei Bizen. It kind of wants to be Saburo, but the groupings are too distinct, sort of Muromachi broad boshi... But this is great. 1 2 Quote
Marcus Devonport Posted Monday at 02:59 PM Author Report Posted Monday at 02:59 PM Hi Lewis, I think this may be something that's carried through from editing- think compressing the image made this only appear worse. It's a cloudy patch on the Ji, as shown here? It does look like a big old thumb print in the original post! I religiously wipe off my blades, so hopefully theres no fingerprints left over from the previous owners 🙂 it's always a worry though Quote
Lewis B Posted Monday at 03:02 PM Report Posted Monday at 03:02 PM This was the fingerprint that caught my attention. Maybe its an artifact Quote
Marcus Devonport Posted Monday at 03:29 PM Author Report Posted Monday at 03:29 PM 28 minutes ago, Rivkin said: It is excellent. It can be many things, but my feeling this is Oei to Bunmei Bizen. It kind of wants to be Saburo, but the groupings are too distinct, sort of Muromachi broad boshi... But this is great. This is Fantastic. What made you arrive at oei/bunmei bizen, just for my own learning? I haven't handled too many pieces that predate shinto period, so learning to appreciate the qualities of older swords. Keen to learn what I can from you 😁 Quote
Hoshi Posted Monday at 04:21 PM Report Posted Monday at 04:21 PM Hi Marcus, This is an Oei bizen hamon structure, it was first introduced by Chogi and the Soden-Bizen group. You can tell by the groupings of gunome and choji formations. Specifically, notice how they cluster together in series of peaks, before receding? Another sign is the relative quietness of the ha, it is fully rendered in nioi, and there is not much activity within, this is also quite typical of these Oei blades. The three most representative smiths of this group are known as the "Three Mitsu" (Yasumitsu, Morimitsu, Norimitsu). They stewarded the Osafune school into the turbulent Oei period (1394-1428). It is very difficult to distinguish between them. There exists multiple generations that extend into the beginning of the Muromachi, but on the basis of the conspicuous utsuri, I would place it with the first generation, and Yasumitsu as the most likely candidate. There are other candidates in Oei: Iesuke, Iemori, and Tsuneie. Here is a masterpiece by Chogi ranked Tokubetsu Juyo, where you can see the origins of the hamon of your blade: https://eu.zonerama.com/Nihonto/Album/11057812 The standout midare utsuri is lovely, and indicates that the blade is in good health. Once upon a time, this was likely a proud tachi with a Kamakura-inspired sugata that Yasumitsu was fond of emulating. Best, Hoshi 6 2 Quote
Marcus Devonport Posted Monday at 04:27 PM Author Report Posted Monday at 04:27 PM Just now, Hoshi said: Hi Marcus, This is an Oei bizen hamon structure, it was first introduced by Chogi and the Soden-Bizen group. You can tell by the groupings of gunome and choji formations. Specifically, notice how they cluster together in series of peaks, before receding? Another sign is the relative quietness of the ha, it is fully rendered in nioi, and there is not much activity within, this is also quite typical of these Oei blades. The three most representative smiths of this group are known as the "Three Mitsu" (Yasumitsu, Morimitsu, Norimitsu). They stewarded the Osafune school into the turbulent Oei period (1394-1428). It is very difficult to distinguish between them. There exists multiple generations that extend into the beginning of the Muromachi, but on the basis of the conspicuous utsuri, I would place it with the first generation, and Yasumitsu as the most likely candidate. There are other candidates in Oei: Iesuke, Iemori, and Tsuneie. Here is a masterpiece by Chogi ranked Tokubetsu Juyo, where you can see the origins of the hamon of your blade: https://eu.zonerama.com/Nihonto/Album/11057812 The standout midare utsuri is lovely, and indicates that the blade is in good health. Once upon a time, this was likely a proud tachi with a Kamakura-inspired sugata that Yasumitsu was fond of emulating. Best, Hoshi Thank you very much for this, Hoshi- I'll admit, I do like the idea of the blade belonging to this line of smiths. I do intend on sending it off for Shinsa in the following year, so would be exciting to see whether they agree on it being such a blade. 2 Quote
Rivkin Posted Monday at 04:29 PM Report Posted Monday at 04:29 PM The most likely bet is Oei Bizen Sanemitsu. 1 1 Quote
Lewis B Posted Monday at 04:34 PM Report Posted Monday at 04:34 PM Some interesting relationships between these three smiths. From Shoshin.com. What makes you think its Sanemitsu, who seems to have favoured bo-utsuri ____________________ SHINZAEMON SANEMITSU(1) O-EI 1394 ___|_____ SANEMITSU(2) CHO-ROKU 1457 SANEMITSU(1) O-EI: SHINZAEMON. SANE form: JITSU "Truth." It is taught that MORIMITSU, YASUMITSU and SANEMITSU collaborated on the making of a sword, it is taught that their styles are the same and that they signed in the same way. His MOKUME HADA will have the OEI style, standing BO-UTSURI. His HAMON will resemble MORIMITSU and YASUMITSU's OEI KOSHI-HIRAKI GUNOME-CHOJI BA. The MEI appears with the old and familiar O-EI hand. SANEMITSU BISHU OSAFUNE SANEMITSU BISHU OSAFUNE SHINZAEMON SANEMITSU SANEMITSU(2) CHO-ROKU: From BUN-AN 1444 to EN-TOKU 1489, when he moved to IYO to make swords. MOKUME HADA. SUGUHA and GUNOME HA. Possibly incorporated his father's name to his MEI. BISHU OSAFUNE SANEMITSU 1 1 Quote
Lewis B Posted Monday at 04:45 PM Report Posted Monday at 04:45 PM I would also add Naomitsu in the hat NAOMITSU (尚光), 1st gen., Ōei (応永, 1394-1428), Bizen – “Bishū Osafune Naomitsu” (備州長船尚光), “Naomitsu” (尚光), his early works have a slender and elegant tachi-sugata, at that time he signed mostly with a niji-mei, the hamon is a more or less flamboyant gunome-chōji-midare in nioi-deki, later he hardened a koshi-no-hiraita gunome-chōji which reminds of Morimitsu (盛光) and Yasumitsu (康光), in addition a clearly visible utsuri appears, we know date signatures from the eighth to the 27th year of Ōei (1401-1420) 2 Quote
Rivkin Posted Monday at 04:47 PM Report Posted Monday at 04:47 PM (edited) He was not particularly known for bo utsuri, it sort of overall Muromachi trait, somebody copied from some book. Its all hair splitting since they are very similar, but with Oei Morimitsu and alike you don't expect groups of the same height, 4 elements+. You expect large choji-gunome joined with a few others, quite a bit more non-uniform appearance. Strong groupings with flat hight/similar width are associated with Eikyo-Onin-Bunmei pieces. But they very seldom have midare utsuri shooting to shinogi and ashi tend to start closer to the edge, overall hamon can be narrower on average. Sanemitsu did flat height large grouping with very wide and expressive hamon, with some ko nie sprinkled around the hamon's upper portion. Its a good match. Edited Monday at 04:49 PM by Rivkin 5 Quote
Jussi Ekholm Posted Monday at 04:50 PM Report Posted Monday at 04:50 PM I would dare to guess that your sword might have been shortened around 8 cm or so. As I believe it is currently bit under 50 cm in blade length it would by my guess originally been bit under 60 cm in length. Of course that is just my speculation but would fit well within the Ōei-Eikyō Bizen size range for borderline wakizashi/katana. With my skills making guesses about individual smiths would be pretty much impossible, as so many smiths worked in very similar style. Here is a Sanemitsu (実光) wakizashi that is 58 cm in length for reference. 3 Quote
Marcus Devonport Posted Monday at 05:07 PM Author Report Posted Monday at 05:07 PM Thanks for this, Jussi- I feel like there are may possibilities, but I see the resemblance between this and my own sword- particularly the boshi area. You're absolutely correct, in terms of the swords current size. Enjoying following this thread, as there's a lot of good suggestions being put forward. Quote
Lewis B Posted Monday at 05:15 PM Report Posted Monday at 05:15 PM For reference here is a rare signed and dated (1406) Sanemitsu. Nagasa 64cm https://eirakudo.shop/665120 1 1 Quote
Natichu Posted Monday at 05:45 PM Report Posted Monday at 05:45 PM 27 minutes ago, Lewis B said: For reference here is a rare signed and dated (1406) Sanemitsu. Nagasa 64cm https://eirakudo.shop/665120 The funbari on that piece seems quite something! Quote
Hoshi Posted Monday at 10:46 PM Report Posted Monday at 10:46 PM (edited) Compare the hamon structure at the hamachi, and the shape of your boshi, with the oshigata below. Notice the very small tobiyaki, and the repeating patterns (3's, 4's). The only noted discrepancy from prototypical Oei works is the height of your sword's yakiba, the lowest valleys are unusually high, this gives me minor pause. I steer more towards one of the three Mitsu's, than Sanemitsu and the others. Your boshi, in particular, is a near perfect match. Juyo Osafune Yasumitsu Edited Monday at 10:50 PM by Hoshi 1 1 Quote
PNSSHOGUN Posted Tuesday at 02:09 AM Report Posted Tuesday at 02:09 AM Yasumitsu tends to have a very distinct rôsoku Boshi. 1 Quote
Marcus Devonport Posted Tuesday at 09:51 AM Author Report Posted Tuesday at 09:51 AM 10 hours ago, Hoshi said: Compare the hamon structure at the hamachi, and the shape of your boshi, with the oshigata below. Notice the very small tobiyaki, and the repeating patterns (3's, 4's). The only noted discrepancy from prototypical Oei works is the height of your sword's yakiba, the lowest valleys are unusually high, this gives me minor pause. I steer more towards one of the three Mitsu's, than Sanemitsu and the others. Your boshi, in particular, is a near perfect match. Juyo Osafune Yasumitsu Looking past the highly-set yakiba, the styling of the hamon is very reminiscent to that of the Yasumitsu sword you posted. I'm beginning to appreciate the similarities between the two swords, and how the shaping of the boshi is a near match. Its made in the same spirit of an Oei Bizen sword, that I'm fairly certain... Being a relative beginner, it takes some effort to see what may be obvious to the more seasoned collectors 😁 Thanks for this, Hoshi. 1 Quote
NotANinja Posted Tuesday at 09:00 PM Report Posted Tuesday at 09:00 PM Hi Marcus, Seems like you've got a lot of information in this post already so I'll just add one thing about the boshi. Do you have a connoisseurs book handy? Because I forget the name but it reminds me of a specific type of boshi meant to look like one of the Buddha, or a statue of, and it has a specific name and allocation. I don't have my book to hand right now given I'm currently in bed haha. Will look again in the morning. Rob. Quote
Marcus Devonport Posted Tuesday at 09:31 PM Author Report Posted Tuesday at 09:31 PM Thanks Rob- don't have access to my books right now, but I do remember owning a soshu blade once with such a boshi. "Jizo" I think the style is, and it was very apparent in the one I had. Not sure whether or not I can lump this one into that catagory. I was leaning towards midare komi. But again, will need to get out the books to check Quote
NotANinja Posted Wednesday at 07:01 PM Report Posted Wednesday at 07:01 PM 21 hours ago, Marcus Devonport said: Thanks Rob- don't have access to my books right now, but I do remember owning a soshu blade once with such a boshi. "Jizo" I think the style is, and it was very apparent in the one I had. Not sure whether or not I can lump this one into that catagory. I was leaning towards midare komi. But again, will need to get out the books to check I reckon it is Jizo, but I think you've got a lot of information already so it probably won't add all that much! 1 Quote
Marcus Devonport Posted Wednesday at 10:35 PM Author Report Posted Wednesday at 10:35 PM Cheers Rob, greatful for the feedback- it's all been useful 😁 Whilst they both share an irregular pattern, feels there's some subtle differences between mine and Jizo- felt more inclined towards Midare-Komi, given the lack of constricted "neck" in the pattern . 'Japanese Sword Index' makes mention of Midare-Komi, within the possible traits of Bizen blades. Quote
Jacques Posted Thursday at 03:13 PM Report Posted Thursday at 03:13 PM Probably Mino, and late Muromachi 1 Quote
Toki Posted Thursday at 10:18 PM Report Posted Thursday at 10:18 PM 7 hours ago, Jacques said: Probably Mino, and late Muromachi As a Newbie, what brought you to that conclusion? Genuinely curious 1 Quote
BjornLundin Posted yesterday at 08:25 AM Report Posted yesterday at 08:25 AM How common is it with this type of hada from one of the three mitsu's? Would think mokume was more common but this is more dense? Nie-deki maybe? Quote
Marcus Devonport Posted 23 hours ago Author Report Posted 23 hours ago 14 hours ago, Toki said: As a Newbie, what brought you to that conclusion? Genuinely curious Apologies to be a little late to respond to this thread, I'm also a curious as its a very different direction to the Bizen attribution others were taking. Hamon looks to be mostly choji, with very prominent utsuri, although I do struggle picking up the structure of the hada in this particular sword 🤔 struggling to see any mention to choji on the Japanese Sword Index for Mino-Den, but not conclusive by any means. Quote
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