Vintage katana ??

[domi88]

Hello everyone. I had published an article on an old katana some time ago and I finally managed to buy it, because the seller sold it at a really low price and it seemed to me that it was worth it. I know that the blade is not perfect, with a few tasks and blows on the edge, but overall, I am satisfied. I would like to know the age of this katana and others. I put as many photos as possible. THANKS

https://photos.app.goo.gl/A9d53Hdd7CiGSBQJ8

[domi88]

No one has any idea about this nihonto ???? 

[Rawa]

Nakago O-suriage, no yokote. Nagamaki naoshi? Blade is in a bad shape but dsn't look to be vintage.

[Rawa]

I dont see any hada here. Hamon either. 

[Rawa]

Sugata looks kinda similar. Double habaki, tsuba with real sekigane. Maybe tsukamaki, fuchi, kashira  are not great but overall would say muromachi [15/16c] or older [koto sword era]. Don't polish it.

[Rawa]

Are you able to see on nakago 2 parts with different old rust patina?

[domi88]

16 minutes ago, Rawa said:

Sugata est assez similaire. Double habaki, tsuba avec vrai sekigane. Peut-être que les tsukamaki, fuchi et kashira ne sont pas géniaux, mais globalement, je dirais Muromachi [XVe/XVIe siècles] ou plus ancien [époque des sabres Koto]. Ne le polissez pas.

Thank you very much 

[ROKUJURO]

Dominique,

a problem is that the sword and metal parts seem to have been 'cleaned'. Besides many other factors, patina is important for an age guess. Even good photos do not allow a precise judgement, so all comments will have to remain a bit vague. 

The best way would be to find an expert - de préférence an NMB member - and show him your sword in hand.

[domi88]

It is normal to clean up certain things without deteriorating the image of these ancient sabers. 

[Ray Singer]

It is very likely that the sword is fatally damaged, the kissaki has been very crudely reshaped, the natural fukura (curvature of the kissaki) removed completely and most probably the boshi is gone at this point. I don't see any indication of a naginatanaoshi here, this appears to be a o-suriage mumei katana (Shinto or earlier) but with likely fatal issues due to the amateur reshaping of the kissaki combined with non-fatal forging flaws. 

[Franco]

 "Don't mistake temptation for opportunity"

[Rawa]

Seeing this kissaki it wasn't temptation for profit. Blade still have good vibe.

[ROKUJURO]

1 hour ago, domi88 said:

It is normal to clean up certain things without deteriorating the image of these ancient sabers. 

No Dominique,

this does not apply to Japanese swords! They are very special and sophisticated, and without the necessary knowledge and experience, all "cleaning" will lead to damage, as you see.

[Franco]

14 minutes ago, Rawa said:

Seeing this kissaki it wasn't temptation for profit. Blade still have good vibe.

 

Who's talking about "for profit" ?

"Don't buy junk!"

[domi88]

In the end. Part those who tell me that the rust should not be removed, or clean. There are only two people who knew how to answer me on the dating of this Katana because that is what I asked first. Sincerely

[domi88]

10 hours ago, Ray Singer said:

Il est très probable que le sabre soit mortellement endommagé, le kissaki ayant été grossièrement remodelé, la courbure naturelle du kissaki ayant été complètement supprimée et le boshi ayant probablement disparu à ce stade. Je ne vois aucune trace de naginatanaoshi ici ; il semble s'agir d'un katana o-suriage mumei (shinto ou antérieur), mais présentant probablement des défauts mortels dus à la remodelage amateur du kissaki, combiné à des défauts de forge non mortels. 

Thank you Ray.ce Katana I acquired it like that, so if I understand correctly, he was shortened ?? Sincerely

[Rawa]

Yes o-suriage means shortened. I thnk you didn't overpaid. You can tell us how much it costed you?

[David Flynn]

It looks like a Chinese copy.

[domi88]

3 hours ago, Rawa said:

Oui, « o-suriage » signifie raccourci. Je pense que vous n'avez pas payé trop cher. Pouvez-vous nous dire combien cela vous a coûté ?

100 euros 

[Rawa]

Blade looks good for that price. 

[domi88]

3 hours ago, David Flynn said:

Cela ressemble à une copie chinoise.

In my opinion you are a very great expert in Nionto and Katana !!!! 

[Rawa]

Yasurime lines [file marks] on nakago dsnt look to be machine made. Who in a world would go that length to do replica?

[domi88]

5 hours ago, domi88 said:

 

 

[domi88]

On voit que cela a été fait avec un fichier

[ROKUJURO]

6 hours ago, Rawa said:

Yasurime lines [file marks] on nakago doesn't look to be machine made......

Marcin;

YASURIME is always made by hand.

[domi88]

A jean c...vous êtes sérieux quand vous dites que ça été fait avec une machine ???¿??????¿?????

[Rawa]

No im stating that no chinese would go that far with details to make replica.

[ROKUJURO]

4 hours ago, domi88 said:

A jean c...vous êtes sérieux quand vous dites que ça a été fait avec une machine ???¿??????¿?????

Non, j'avais écrit "YASURIME est toujours fait manuellement"   (= YASURIME is always made by hand).

[ROKUJURO]

19 hours ago, Rawa said:

No im stating that no Chinese would go that far with details to make replica.

That is not correct Marcin, they are learning and improving! In many cases, they no longer produce these clumsy Damascus blades from 30 years ago! Today, some factories in China are producing surprizingly well made swords. For non-experts, it becomes more and more difficult to differentiate.

[domi88]

Finally of account on all the messages I have received ... No one is capable or expert to tell me how old at this nihonto ... I am not on the right site apparently !!!!!!