Netsuke Central

[Matsunoki]

On 10/22/2025 at 11:55 AM, Bugyotsuji said:

My own collection, culled mostly from antiques markets in Japan, generally tends toward the functional and everyday

Hi Piers, I do envy you……being able to wander around and accumulate such charming authentic examples that illustrate a time and a lifestyle now somewhat lost. 

[Bugyotsuji]

Colin, several NMB members are in Japan or about to be, for the DTI. I imagine they will be trawling around for goodies! 

 

Often I strike out and come away empty-handed, but you well know the pleasure of heading out with high hopes of spotting something interesting. Max R once told me that you have to make the effort to get out, and meet people, and travel around.

 

Tomorrow I'm headed to Kyoto to visit two antiques fairs this weekend... wish me luck!

[Matsunoki]

3 minutes ago, Bugyotsuji said:

wish me luck!

Indeed I wish you enormous luck, I also wish I was there!

As I’m sure you know, here in the UK there are very few opportunities to go to decent fairs or markets and when you do go, like we did last week, with about 400 “dealers” (interpret that word loosely) there was nothing worth even picking up. Fake netsuke everywhere, fake chinese porcelain, one chap proudly showed me his 2 inro…..both fake! Let’s not even mention fake swords and tsuba. Arghhhhhhh!!!!

[John C]

4 hours ago, Bugyotsuji said:

Did anyone spot the vent pricker?

I'm assuming one of the two metal looking pointy pieces at the top of the pic?

 

John C.

p.s. Been looking for a drinking cup. Saw one on Ebay last year. The guy wanted 250 dollars! Needless to say, I still don't have one.

[Bugyotsuji]

Parallel to the top of the jabara purse top right is a needle. This one is made of shinchu (brass), presumably because it will not strike a spark when cleaning out a blocked pan/vent.

 

I'll keep an eye out for a cup, John, but you never know if you will come across one. You could ask the guys in Tokyo running that antiques fair search.(?)

[Kiita]

On 10/22/2025 at 4:29 AM, Bugyotsuji said:

This little lacquered carrying cup may be made from the same material as the ashtray haizara netsuke above. The concentric rings and little pinpricks look similar. Could be hazé 櫨の木, wax tree.(?)

Dead on I'd say. Grain and color on my piece where not hidden by tar and grime are identical.

[Matsunoki]

On 10/23/2025 at 4:25 PM, Bugyotsuji said:

 

Tomorrow I'm headed to Kyoto to visit two antiques fairs this weekend... wish me luck!

….and how was that luck?🙂

[Bugyotsuji]

Dang, Colin! Excellent question! 
 

The quick answer is “a mixed bag which included two dollops of serendipity”.

 

This is the Netsuke Central thread, however, so to stay strictly on topic, the weekend was ‘educational’. I saw perhaps 100+ top-class Netsuké, and thinking that it might be relatively cheaper, enquired casually about a beautifully lacquered, signed obi-hasami. The answer was ¥1,000,000… Well, cheap to some perhaps, but that was ten times my total budget for the day. Ulp!

 

I did buy an obi-hasami of perhaps bone material (?) which cost relatively nothing, plus two ojime, and a very pretty old shell (with a tatty string remnant through it), which had once served as a ‘natural’ netsuke. There was indeed a fashion at one time (early to mid Edo) for natural netsuke, and I once had a pearlescent nautilus shell netsuke, plus a beautiful chunk of amber with silver fittings, so I was pleased to acquire another one.

 

So, netsuke-wise, not a great haul, but better than a kick in the butt. 

[Matsunoki]

49 minutes ago, Bugyotsuji said:

So, netsuke-wise, not a great haul, but better than a kick in the butt. 

Finding something is always better than nothing🙂. Methinks you might have come home with treasure other than netsuke?

[Rick Becker]

I was reading the thread and found it very interesting, so I thought I’d ask for an opinion on my only Netsuke. Any opinions or information would be very much appreciated.

thank you in advance

Rick

[Bugyotsuji]

Thanks for posting, Rick.

 

Leaving aside questions of quality and age for the moment, your fledgling karasu tengu is signed Masakatsu 正勝.

There was a Masakatsu carver, real name Suzuki (1840-1899), who worked in wood in Uji Yamada, according to Ito Ryoichi.

 

There is also quite a bit of information, with illustrations of the kind of work done by at least two Masakatsu in the 1800s in the MCI, pp 416-419.

 

Look and compare. Is the quality there? Is the age there?

 

[Rick Becker]

22 minutes ago, Bugyotsuji said:

Thanks for posting, Rick.

 

Leaving aside questions of quality and age for the moment, your fledgling karasu tengu is signed Masakatsu 正勝.

There was a Masakatsu carver, real name Suzuki (1840-1899), who worked in wood in Uji Yamada, according to Ito Ryoichi.

 

There is also quite a bit of information, with illustrations of the kind of work done by at least two Masakatsu in the 1800s in the MCI, pp 416-419.

 

Look and compare. Is the quality there? Is the age there?

 

Thank you for the quick response, Piers.  I had actually done a little research on Masakatsu a few years ago and decided to take another look after reading this thread. My interest has been Nihonto for about 47 years, but I freely admit my knowledge is limited and I have no knowledge of Netsuke. Primarily interested in a quick opinion if it looks authentic and the mei looks it could right, based on the photos.

It was a gift about 30 years ago.

Thank you

Rick

[PietroParis]

I guess Piers meant to be Socratic, but since he didn't reply for a few days here's my quick opinion: no, it doesn't look authentic. It does not look much older than the 30 years you mention.

Edited November 4 by PietroParis

[John C]

This question is about how yatate were carried. I know some were used as a type of netsuke or had netsuke or separate ink inro attached to them via the small hole toward the front, however many of them that I see have just a simple string or string and bead attached. This doesn't seem as if it would serve much purpose (re: be effective) other than decorative. 

Other than just shoving the handle of the yatate into the obi, was there a specific way in which these were carried that involved the string and bead?

 

John C.

[Bugyotsuji]

Offhand, I do not know the definitive answer, John, and would have to spend some time looking it up myself. It could be some type of sageo cord, to prevent slippage, and ‘lock’ it in place behind the obi.(?)

[John C]

That makes sense, Piers. You wouldn't want the ink pot to turn and spill. I was thinking the cord could wrap around the lid to keep it secure (I usually don't see them with a latch or lock), though the cords aren't usually blackened with ink.

 

John C.

[Rick Becker]

Thank you Pietro and Piers, I believe you are correct and I should have researched it again before making the post. There is a lot more information available now than 30 years ago.

thanks again,

Rick

 

[John C]

On 11/4/2025 at 2:26 PM, Bugyotsuji said:

could be some type of sageo cord,

Hello Piers:

I found this pic of a yatate that has himotoshi built in. So I suspect that would be one of the purposes of the cord - to secure the lid even without himotoshi, though I'm not sure why more examples don't have this feature.

 

John C.

Edited November 10 by John C
added content

[Bugyotsuji]

The other day I found a Netsuke with simple ojime and Inro attached. The dealer said the Netsuke was ‘stag antler’, but when I objected that it looked more ceramic, he grabbed it, looked more closely and then bumped up the price. I should have kept my mouth shut. Golden Rule of bargain hunting in Japan that I have oft broken and later rued.

 

Not that I am particularly collecting ceramic Netsuke, but this one just drifted along the stream in front of me and begged to join the others.
 

Compared with several examples in Toledo Museum’s Silverman collection I would have to call it as they do: “Hirado ware; porcelain with matte bisque glaze and stain.“

 

Tsuru Sen-nin, a Chinese immortal/sage,

carrying a crane. Edo Period

Right view

 

Left view

 

Back view. Big chunk missing, probably dropped at some stage. To left, imprint of maker’s seal?

 

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Agreed that it’s a pretty ugly thing to look at, but to some people therein lies the very charm of pottery netsuke.

[Matsunoki]

8 hours ago, Bugyotsuji said:

Agreed that it’s a pretty ugly thing to look at, but to some people therein lies the very charm of pottery netsuke.

 

There is a lot of skill involved in the making of that one. Never encountered ceramic netsuke and maybe it isn’t quite 18thC Kyoto but it’s quite rare I suspect. 
As for a dealer putting the price up….very dishonourable! Golden rule…if you know more that the seller, keep quiet🙂

[John C]

So would these have been hand carved from a lump of clay then fired? At the time, I would think these would have been done for the masses. But now they are more expensive than bone or metal?

I'm glad you posted it. I would have walked right past it in a shop.

 

John C.

[PietroParis]

The seal is 正一 Masakazu, a common one on the crane sennin model. Here is my contribution in this category (but no seal):

 

[PietroParis]

2 hours ago, John C said:

So would these have been hand carved from a lump of clay then fired? At the time, I would think these would have been done for the masses. (...)

 

As they are hollow inside, I think they were molded in two halves that were then joined together before the firing. Sometimes (as in the possibly unfinished example below, also in my collection) you can still see the joint:

 

Edited November 17 by PietroParis

[Bugyotsuji]

Thanks Pietro for the great feedback, and for showing us your examples. The various coloured glazes do make them more attractive. Surely elements of the finer detail were added by hand at some stage.(?)

 

John, I am not sure if these would be more expensive than bone or metal. Metal Netsuke are rare enough in their own right.

[Bugyotsuji]

Looking for Masakazu and ceramic Netsuké, I came across this in the MCI. Thanks, Pietro above.

 

No.6

 

 

[Tyler stone]

Hi, I have acquired a large collection of netsuke from a very rich persons personal assets. Wanting to know more about them. 

[Matsunoki]

46 minutes ago, Tyler stone said:

Wanting to know more about them. 

Tyler, sorry to tell you that the ones in your images are not genuine netsuke…..they are all later imitations of virtually zero quality in terms of Japanese artistry and carving. Probably not even “made” in Japan. 

[John C]

6 hours ago, Tyler stone said:

Wanting to know

Tyler:

My knowledge on netsuke is very limited, however here are a few things I know to watch out for:

1. Arrow at the top right shows where the rotary tool veered off course. 

2. Arrow in the middle top points to the ring around the himotoshi, which is common on fakes.

3. Arrow at left top shows that the himotoshi are the same size, which is also common on fakes (one should be bigger to accomodate the knot in the cord)

4. Arrow at the bottom is to indicate that the "signature" is only roughly Japanese, which again, is common on fakes. Real netsuke are only occasionally signed and it is done very artistically. 

 

John C.