Rear Sight Pieces

[rickystl]

Hello ALL.  I'm new to his Forum.  I have a Tanegashima, plain munitions grade, that is in shooting condition.  Looking forward to reading earlier posts in this Forum.  Meantime, a question:

 

Does anyone have a photo(s) of original, small rear sight pieces for the barrels ?  Thanks for any help.

 

Rick

[Bugyotsuji]

Hi Rick,

If you mean rear sights in position, yes, there are tons of photos available. Do you want a generic sight for a gun that is otherwise pretty standard? (Often the shape can depend on the region of manufacture.)

 

[rickystl]

Hi Piers

 

Thanks for your response.  I'll take what ever I can get.  LOL  I'm trying to find pics of the little sight pieces themselves.  But also one or two mounted on a barrel.  

 

Many years ago I saw a photo of a variety of small sight pieces next to a carrying pouch.  For the most part, instead of one adjustable rear sight, these barrels used a variety of separate small sights pinned (or otherwise attached) to the base of the rear sight.  The different sizes would depend on the anticipated range to hit the target.  

 

My Tans has this common style of sight for BOTH the rear and front sights.  But I know many had this as only the rear sight with a fixed front sight.

 

Any help appreciated.

 

Rick

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Ah, the added information begins to fill in the picture. Long guns from Awa had adjustable sights front and rear, although most of them have lost the sliding, fold-up part. Adjustable sights of any kind were very much the exception, and fully working ones not often found today.
 

There is a guy called Sawada Taira, author of ‘Nihon no Furujū’, who proudly shows people his ladder sight, which has its own separate box. An extremely rare object.

 

I am guessing you’d like photos of the above, or would you also be interested in normal, fixed-in-place rear sights? Am I correct in assuming that yours is missing, and there is a shallow box where it should be? Or is yours like 99% +/- of Tanegashima which have fixed rear and front sights?

[Bugyotsuji]

Is this the illustration you saw, Rick? From Sugawa Shigeo’s ‘The Japanese Matchlock’.
These are not replaceable, but just examples of styles.

 

 

[Bugyotsuji]

And these are from Sawada San’s book, showing how the Awa long guns’ front and rear sights could be adjusted up and down.

 

 

[rickystl]

Hi Piers

 

WOW !!!  Thanks so much for your replies.  That's exactly what I was looking for.  Thanks so much.

 

On my gun, the front sight is like #2, and my rear sight is like #1 - per the above sketch.

 

Unlike European style (later) one-piece, adjustable ladder type rear sights, these Tans barrels appear to be built with what I might call a sight BASE.  With grooves, holes, etc. to attach separate, small sight pieces (except the ones that have a fixed front sight).  Am I correct about this ?

 

Thanks again, Rick

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Hi Rick, glad we are hitting the sweet spot.

 

Some back sights did have fitting parts, but the majority did not. The variation of number 3 above looks as if it did, slide and stand, like the sights of Awa guns. Mostly they were decorative, indicating different regions or schools. Osaka and Choshu guns for example had a Mt Fuji (or half Fuji) rear sight, like No.4. Most of the grooves, or ridges, were simply lines of sight. Bizen used a blob of silver on the front sight to help draw the eye. Vertical holes were for short sticks of burning incense, for night sighting, it is said.

 

So yours are both box type front and rear, with a valley split? Someone told me two slits is an older type, but I have not been able to corroborate that.

[rickystl]

Piers:  Thanks again for your information.  I believe you've solved my (and others) mystery.  I would have never guessed what the tiny holes were used for.  I would imagine any small, extra sight pieces would be easily lost and therefor considered rare today (?)  The box type sights on my gun both have a single, narrow groove going lengthwise with the barrel.  The rear sight only has a single, horizontal (if you're aiming the gun) hole.  I can't really understand how you get a decent "sight picture" using these sights as-is.  But I can imagine if adding additional sight pieces to these would make sense.  

 

Rick

[rickystl]

Hi again Piers

 

Do you have any additional photos as above showing the actual sight pieces mounted on what I'm calling the base ?

 

Rick

[Brian]

It's unlikely your gun was made to use any additional sight pieces. As Piers explained, although they look like they had additional pieces used to adjust elevation, the fact is the shape was just traditional, and they really didn't have extra pieces. Only very few schools of gunmaking used the pieces you are referring to, but those are by far in the minority. 

[Bugyotsuji]

As someone once said, smoothbore matchlocks were never going to be seriously accurate. With no rifling, the knuckleball effect almost guarantees a measure of inaccuracy. For this reason the sights, especially on larger hand-held weapons, were more like a token statement.

 

The only other photos I have come from Sawada's book. One is the front sight with a hole, from a Satsuma gun. The other is a ladder sight owned by Mr Sawada himself that he proudly carries around showing people, being such a rare object. And double-boxed!

 

1.

 

2.

 

 

 

 

 

[rickystl]

Thank You Brian and Piers.  It appears I have been mostly mistaken for thinking that there were additional, small sight pieces that attached to the front and/or rear fixed sights on the barrels.  At least not in common use.  So, I stand corrected.  What made me think there were additional sight pieces was the sight "picture" you get while aiming the gun.  Nothing like the picture you get with "Western" muskets, even during the original European matchlock period.  

On my gun, the front sight looks like #2 and the rear sight looks like #1 in the above sketch.  So, I guess the idea was to line up the two very thin vertical groves of both sights for aiming.  

In any case, thanks for the enlightenment.  Very much appreciate it.  I'll take some photos of the sights on my gun and post here.

 

Rick