kusunokimasahige Posted October 30, 2008 Report Posted October 30, 2008 Okay we all know that there is a lot of talk concerning papers on here, and that some swords are attributed to one smith or another... Now....... A Smith in 1579 makes great swords... he makes a daisho for a Samurai and the Samurai takes really good care of them.... centuries later, the Daisho is split up somehow and the Katana goes to Shinsa.. it gets tokubetsu hozon, or even Juyo rating.... The Wakizashi is years later submitted to Shinsa somewhere else... It gets a Gimei qualification... and a pink slip What no one knew... Was the fact the Smith after a night of heavy sake drinking was feeling rather sickly.. hence when signing the wakizashi the carving showed a lot of mistakes...... So arent we all attesting too much value on Papers in stead of admiring the swords for what they really are...? beautiful works of art? I mean, i could imagine submitting a sword to two different shinsa and getting two different opinions....... KM Quote
Rich S Posted October 30, 2008 Report Posted October 30, 2008 Actually, getting different attributions and even shoshin/gimei is rather common when submitting a sword to different shinsa groups. One reason I don't do it. An opinion is still just an opinion. Writing that opinion on a piece of paper doesn't make it a fact. Rich S Quote
paulb Posted October 30, 2008 Report Posted October 30, 2008 I agree very much with Rich that a paper is just another opinion, albeit a very learned one and there are certainly many stories of swords being submitted to different groups or even the same group at different times and coming back with different attributions. However coming back to your first point it sort of implies that the attribution is based purely on the mei. In fact the mei is (from what I have seen at the UK shinsas) the last thing looked at. As has been said often here before, the mei should confirm the opinion made based on the workmanship. Having said that I have seen swords made by top rated smiths (a recent Rai Kunitoshi springs to mind) where the workmanship was extremely pedestrian, so I have no doubt they produced "monday morning" work like the rest of us mortals. To confirm points made before: 1. You should buy the sword not the paper. 2. The main benefit of papers from one of the main shinsa groups is that it confirms a level of condition when buying a blade unseen over distance. 3. When buying a famous name there is no doubt I would be more confident in parting with cash for a blade that had been passed by an expert shinsa panel than not. We can go on at infinitem about how valuable papers are or are not and it is up to the indvidual how much credence he/she places on them. There is no doubt however that having papers is of commercial benefit if nothing else. Quote
stekemest Posted October 30, 2008 Report Posted October 30, 2008 Well, that's not a problem concerning Nihonto only, but works of art in general. Just remember the many paintings that were attributed to Rembrandt until a few years ago and are now regarded as works by his pupils (the man with the golden helmet being the most prominent example). Attributions are not based on the inscriptions only, but mostly on style etc., but in most cases they are still opinions and opinions can, of course, vary. Quote
Jacques Posted October 30, 2008 Report Posted October 30, 2008 Hi, A Smith in 1579 makes great swords... he makes a daisho for a Samurai and the Samurai takes really good care of them.... centuries later, the Daisho is split up somehow and the Katana goes to Shinsa.. it gets tokubetsu hozon, or even Juyo rating.... The Wakizashi is years later submitted to Shinsa somewhere else... It gets a Gimei qualification... and a pink slip Nice story but it smells a legend perfume. Quote
kusunokimasahige Posted October 30, 2008 Author Report Posted October 30, 2008 Rather the smell of Sake...... KM great to hear all your views on this!! Quote
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