Iron tsuba attribution?

[kyushukairu]

I've a couple of iron tsuba which I'm unsure of and looking for opinions.

The eight-spoke/Buddhist wheel motif, has a well formed maru mimi, though the spokes and center plate are flat and about 2mm.  My guess would be ko-katchushi

The second is a well forged piece of iron, with good symmetry and the theme of scale weights (ryo). Possibly Edo era Owari or Akasaka?

I welcome any thoughts or opinions on these two pieces 

[ROKUJURO]

Don't take my guesses too serious, but I think also that the left TSUBA is OWARI (not AKASAKA). The right is not KO- and not KACHUSHI in my opinion, but much later. SHOAMI?

[kyushukairu]

Thanks for commenting Jean. It's frustrating to see 50+ views and no comments, so I appreciate it.

The one on the left is thematically Owari, but the rounded mimi reminded me of Akasaka, so I wasn't too certain.

As for the second tsuba, I've often seen kachushi tsuba with what Haynes describes as a 'pipe rim' (http://www.shibuiswords.com/haynesTsu73.html) and it also has a much thinner center, less than half the thickness of the mimi, which is a kantei point for katchushi. It's also quite a tactile piece, and 'feels' much older than many other tsuba I've handled, so I thought it may be pre-Edo.

[JohnTo]

Hi Kyle, Just seen your post.

 

I'll go with Jean on the Owari tsuba.  The rim on the other points to katchushi, Myochin family.  However, Higo tsuba often had similar rims on sukashi tsuba, but usually decorated with nunome.  RB Caldwell collection had a somewhat similar simple 8 spoke wheel tsuba with a single kodzuka hitsu ana and decorated (brass/copper zogan) rim, which was attributed to Heianjo sukashi (Lot 22, Sotherby's 30 March 1994).  However the rims on the Higo and the Caldwell tsuba are wider and flatter, so I'll stick with the katchushi attribution.

 

Regards, John 

[kyushukairu]

Many thanks for your thoughts, John. I'll have to check out the Caldwell collection to see this tsuba for myself.
​Can I ask your reason for choosing Owari over Akasaka? I always think of Owari tsuba as having a square rim, though this one is rounded in the Akasaka style, so I'd be interested in your rationale.

​I should also note that both of these tsuba have been offered for sale on the board, if anyone is interested in studying them in hand