Nbthk Tokubetsu Kicho Papers

[Heringsdorf]

I was wondering if one can trust NBTHK Tokubetsu Kicho papers from around 1979, if they were issued for a signed blade?

Thank you.

[SwordGuyJoe]

Maybe. Who is the blade by?

[Heringsdorf]

Chounsai Tsunatoshi

Second generation

[SwordGuyJoe]

Pretty good smith. I would look very hard at the details of the blade and let that tell you if the papers are right, rather than vice versa.

[nagamaki - Franco]

If memory serves the late 70's, early 80's, were the troublesome years, wait to see what others here have to say. And, yes, as Joe suggests, do your homework carefully.

[Heringsdorf]

This is the link to the blade I'm talking about.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Y37-Japanese-sword-wakizashi-in-mountings-Chounsai-Tsunatoshi-NBTHK-paper-/231925700455?&autorefresh=true

[paulb]

At the risk of repeating answers already posted when the question of reliability of early papers crops up can I confirm my understanding and perhaps others can add or comment if it is wrong:

1. Some (not all) papers issued in the late 70s by branch offices of the NBTHK were found to be questionable or just plain wrong.

2. Examples were mainly, but not exclusively Tokubetu Kicho and the rarer "Blue" papers (sorry I cant remember the correct term for those)

3. As far as I am aware no papers issued by the NBTHK head office in Tokyo were found to be wrong.

4. Obviously confidence in the system was shaken which is why the newer system was introduced in the 80s and people were invited to re-submit swords for re-appraisal if they had older papers from this period.

 

So with this sword there are two questions

- where was the paper produced? If in Tokyo it has a greater chance of being right, if somewhere else then it is less reliable

- why wasn't it re-submitted when the offer to do so was there.

I think it is very unfortunate but understandable that a few bad papers caused the whole system to be brought in to question. I would be confident that the vast majority of older papers are  accurate, but confidence has been lost in the market and certainly few dealers or auction houses appear regard them as reliable. This means if you buy a sword with old papers you will either grab a possible bargain or something that isn't what it claims to be.

As always whether it is worth buying depends on the final price, how much you like the sword and how important the mei is to you in making that decision.

[Darcy]

Blades in Japan: there is no reason to be carrying around papers with question marks, especially taking a blade with papers with question marks and then dumping it on ebay. That tells you everything you need to know. It is just too easy and convenient to take a blade, especially one made by a major smith like this, and bring it in and get questions resolved and remove all doubts from it.

 

Honestly if you had say a Masamune with green papers you know what that would go for (nothing) on the market? If it was legit you'd take it in and get proper papers on it and sell it for a lot more. It's in your own best interests for how much money you'd get out of selling it to upgrade the papers to something people would have faith in.

 

Even if I believe in something with no papers or green papers in Japan, if I buy it I do so only under the condition that it pass Hozon. The two situations where I encountered this, both times it failed to pass Hozon and I got refunds.

 

So that's my experience. 

 

People will still bid on this stuff because they'd rather buy a lottery ticket with 0% chance of winning for 20% of the price of buying the real thing. They repeat that logic 5 times and they have 5 times zero worth of value instead of one good thing. It still doesn't stop them though.