Tameshimei Assistance

[drbvac]

The cutting test I think says Futatso doo Otosu which are the Kanji and says 2 bodies dropped - I assume it is a two body test

 

The Date has the year Jukyo -1684  three years a lucky day and I know the kanji for hachi  gatsu and the final part is Nam ban tetsu motte kore 版 鉄 持 

which I beleive again is literally - well foreign iron made by ? 

 

I think I have identified what the Kanji are but can not get the flow so that the translation means something proper or orderly when stated in English - 

 

[k morita]

Hi.
The inscription on the tang has a mistake of one kanji letter. looks like "Nan-raku-tetsu" (南樂鉄) .
I can't read it as Nan-ban-tetsu (南蠻鉄) .
 

[SteveM]

And, the syntax is what's called 漢文 (sort of classical Japanese patterned on Chinese grammar). It is not what is used in typical Japanese, so translating into modern Japanese and then translating that into English requires a bit of creative accounting. 

 

南蠻鉄造之　なんばんてつつくりこれ   

 

これをなんばんてつでつくった

 

Made using "Southern Barbarian Iron"　(Iron imported from overseas, usually Europe - Spain and Portugal). Probably you already knew this, so perhaps surplus to your requirements. Anyway, maybe useful for someone else reading this thread. 

[drbvac]

Thank you both very much - I did know it was made with foreign iron and the date and the test but as you said - lining up the Kanji in order and knowing what it translates to in English are completely different things - never mind that any one Kanji has 15 meanings itself but combinations are also different.  

 

If I may - what is the difference in RAKU and BAN ?

 

I was attempting to come up with the literal translation of the characters and then for my notes what it actually meant so thank you again. Both Morita san and Steve are very generous with their knowledge and time. 

 

Now if you have a dental problem drop me a line and I will explain the problem and how to get the best deal in treating it 

[SteveM]

Raku = 楽　(樂 in old style kanji) means fun/entertaining, ease, comfort, and a million other things.

Ban = 蛮　(蠻 in old style kanji) means crude, uncivilized, barbaric

 

I have no idea why the engraver would use 樂 instead of 蠻.

 

南樂 doesn't make any sense. Raku and Ban don't sound anything alike, so its a very odd mistake to make.  

[drbvac]

Thanks Steve:  

 

With great respect for both yourself and Morita-san who does unbelievable work on this board perhaps it is like reading Doctors Notes.

 

Many times in reading records you see a word and because it makes no sense at all in the context it is written - you have to assume that the writing is so weird that what it says is what it is supposed to say - rather than what you think it looks like - thats a weird way to say that I know but as Stev the points out RAKU is not the word that goes with a description of a blade being made of Namban iron.

 

It is a 17th century typo   

[SteveM]

I think its one of three possibilities

1. Authentic mistake (typo, as you say)

2. Mistake made by counterfeiter

3. Correct kanji (only we don't understand the reference)

 

I actually think #1 is the most improbable. I think #2 is probable, as it is a nicely executed kanji (by someone who knows how to write kanji) its just that this particular kanji doesn't fit in with the context - so it was carved by someone who knows how to write, but doesn't know enough about swords. 

 

But I also don't completely discount #3. Maybe there is some contemporary thing or some - I don't want to say code, but let's call it a deliberate carving of a wrong kanji for some purpose that we don't understand. 

[drbvac]

Well # 1 is probably not the case since the blade is papered, and maybe # 2 but the #3 could be correct as the smith signed his name and date and performed the cutting test on his own blade. Maybe it is not a type but an honest mistake if the smith was not aware of the proper way to write that the blade was made of Namban iron ??? Who knows - I have seen enough strange things that nothing would surprise me any more.

 

Would I be safe in noting that the closest English translation would be "Made from foreign iron" - ?

 

Thanks again - you folks are a great source of knowledge - better send the board another donation in gratitude - offer still stands on dental advice

 

BB

[SteveM]

Would I be safe in noting that the closest English translation would be "Made from foreign iron" - ? 

Yes, that's right.