Antique Tsuba?

[blissfeelings]

Hi all I have had this tsuba for a long time and recently I have been trying to find out some info about it, how old is it? what sort of metal it is composed of, what the Japanese writing on it says and the big question, is it valuable?

[bone]

Can you please show the edge?

[blissfeelings]

I will add more pics in 5/10min

[blissfeelings]

Here are some different views of my tsuba

[bone]

I'm wrong most of the time for reasons... well if I knew that I wouldn't be wrong now would I?

 

As far as I can see this is a beautiful example. What's the back look like?

[cabowen]

江州彦根住入道宗典製

 

Koshu Hikone ju Nyudo Soten Sei

 

Made by the priest Soten living in Hikone, Koshu.

 

Please google "Soten" and you will find a wealth of into. Genuine pieces are rare. I could be wrong but yours would seem typical of the copies usually seen...

[bone]

I'm wrong most of the time for reasons... well if I knew that I wouldn't be wrong now would I?

 

As far as I can see this is a beautiful example. What's the back look like?

 

See what I mean?

[blissfeelings]

Thanks, my fingers are crossed and hope it is the real article. there is a good weight to it which probably doesn't mean much. Image tsuba3.jpeg is a view of the back Steve

[blissfeelings]

Hi Chris, Is there any easy way I could confirm that this is genuine or not?

[bone]

*sigh* If Chris thinks it's fake it is. Still... It looks sooo good.

[blissfeelings]

Here is hoping your wrong again Steve

[cabowen]

I'm hardly an authority when it comes to tsuba so I could very well be wrong, but there are boatloads of fake Soten around and like a Kotetsu signed blade, it is usually almost a sure bet that the signature when found is false.

 

You might google as I suggested and compare valid pieces to your own. I am sure others much more knowledgeable than I will chime in at some point...

[blissfeelings]

I'm hardly an authority when it comes to tsuba so I could very well be wrong, but there are boatloads of fake Soten around and like a Kotetsu signed blade, it is usually almost a sure bet that the signature when found is false.

 

You might google as I suggested and compare valid pieces to your own. I am sure others much more knowledgeable than I will chime in at some point...

 

 

Thanks Chris, I have compared my tsuba to the photos of the original Soten and I cant stop thinking that it wouldn't look out of place along side and to be honest the detail on my tsuba seems to be more intricate than anything I can find. (keeping my hopes up :D)

[nagamaki - Franco]

Workmanship is lacking. See .... http://www.nihontomessageboard.com/nmb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13005&view=next

[cabowen]

Here are the words of John L. posted in reference to another Soten example that was posted here:

 

The original two masters, working in the first half of the eighteenth century, had a large number of students, most of whom signed their work with the Sōten mei. Their work, together with the innumerable copies emanating from the Hiragiya and Aizu Shōami schools, and later shiiremono made for export at the Yokohama docks, makes genuine work by the masters extremely rare. Their's was generally less decorative, and with less openwork, than that of later copyists and, often on a solid plate, was not unlike that of the Mino-bori artists.

 

Thus I prefer to call all of this Sōten-style work ‘Hikone-bori’ rather than ‘gimei’.

 

John L.

 

As I said, I am not a tsuba expert, just playing the percentages. Perhaps your pictures aren't doing the item justice or I should put my glasses on! In any case, like I said, let's see what those who specialize in this area have to say....At least now you know where to look!

[Grey Doffin]

Hi, please sign with your name; it is the rule here,

Just because the signature is most likely fake that doesn't mean the tsuba has no value. Looks to be quite nice; just not a real Soten.

Grey

[Soshin]

Hi Everyone,

 

Need I say more: http://www.aoijapan.com/img/fittings/2014/F14457.jpg...

 

P.S. Here is a another one for fun. The best I have seen ever for sale.

http://www.nihonto.us/SOTEN%20KINKO%20TSUBA.htm

[Thierry BERNARD]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2342&p=16219&hilit=soten#p16219

[nagamaki - Franco]

P.S. Here is a another one for fun. The best I have seen ever for sale.http://www.nihonto.us/SOTEN%20KINKO%20TSUBA.htm

 

Cyrus used to have a Soten tsuba on his website many moons ago that would knock your socks off in comparison. Wish an image was still around(?) to show what is possible.

[Jean]

3/4 years ago, Bob Benson had a a fantastic Shakudo Soten Daisho for sale. It was pinked by NBTHK and papered by NTHK. :D

[Soshin]

3/4 years ago, Bob Benson had a a fantastic Shakudo Soten Daisho for sale. It was pinked by NBTHK and papered by NTHK. :D

 

Hi Jean,

 

Thanks for the information. I am sure you know this but I am repeating this for the person starting this topic. Shinsa is just a very educated opinion not an exact science... Friends have told me stories where it was the other way around between the NTHK and the NBTHK. :lol:

[Jean]

I can add that perhaps it was pinked because it was shakudo...for a Soten.....

[blissfeelings]

Thanks everyone, It may well be fake but the detail is amazing. I don't think you can see the carving of the dragon on the photo, that runs around the outside edge.

 

If anyone has any idea how to get it valued, would be much appreciated.

[Soshin]

Hi [ADD NAME HERE],

 

Are you planning to sell it soon? Do you work for a commercial company? If you work for a company I would approach a professional dealer and ask privately for an appraisal and retail value. Your photos are not the best and so a in person examination of the tsuba might be necessary. It might cost you a small fee and travel time but you would have a retail value. Most professional auction houses will also do this for free and provide a auction value for the item.

[Jean]

John,