左兵衛 - Sahyōe vs Sabei

[Gabriel L]

Hello,

 

This is not so much a "translation assistance" as a "reading preference question." I know romaji is ultimately a flawed method of transcription, with a lot of competing systems and alternate readings. But just for my own sake, do you prefer to read 左兵衛 as "Sahyōe" or "Sabei," and why? How is it typically pronounced in spoken Japanese? Is there any historical or linguistic reason to favor one reading over the other? I am presuming that going kanji-by-kanji one would choose the former, but perhaps in usage it is closer to the latter?

 

Regards,

—G.

[kunitaro]

左兵衛 "Sa-hyōe" is a name/title of millitary officer in 兵衛府 "Hyōe-fu (department of imperial guard)

 

左兵衛 "Sa-hyōe" and 右兵衛 "U-hyōe"

 

〇〇兵衛 (-- bei) is a name of person. but, there is no "Sabei".

[Gabriel L]

Thank you very much Kunitaro-san.

 

Just for example, from Markus Sesko's index:

 

Kunishige (国重), Meireki (明暦, 1655-1658), Bitchū – „Bitchū no Kuni Mizuta-jū Sabei Kunishige“ (備中国水田住左兵衛国重), „Bitchū no Kuni Mizuta-jū Kunishige“ (備中国水田住国重), first name „Sabei“ (左兵衛), student of the 4th gen. Kunishige (Saburōbei)

...

Morimune (森宗), Kyōhō (享保, 1716-1736), Ōshū – „Ōshū-jū Tachibana Morimune“ (奥州住橘森宗), „Tachibana Morimune“ (橘森宗), first name „Sabei“ (左兵衛), he studied under Ōmi no Kami Hisamichi (近江守久道) and lived in Ōshū ́s Hirosaki (弘前)

 

So in these cases and similar, you would say that 左兵衛 would be better translated as Sahyōe?

 

I ask this with very humble respect to Mr. Sesko, I only used his index to find these examples because it is so very convenient; elsewhere he lists names with these kanji as Sahyōe and he is not the only one who has included "Sabei" examples. Hence my question in the first place.

[kunitaro]

Sorry, "Sabei" is not familier as person's name. however, If the name of person, then "Sabei".

and the name of title "Sa-hyoe".

[Gabriel L]

I see. Thank you!

[Pete Klein]

This is interesting as it explains something which happened to me many years ago. There was a tsuba listed as, 'Yamakichihyoe' instead of 'Yamakichibei' and now I see it was an improper translation.

Thanks!

[Nobody]

As a person's name, I hardly pronounce "Sabei". Its preferred pronunciation is "Sahe'e".

 

"Something+兵衛" as a person's name usually reads "Something-he'e" or "Something-be'e". The variation depends on the sound of its first part.

 

Furthermore, there are some mixing up in peaking as follows.

"-he'e" <---> "-hei"

"-be'e" <---> "-bei"

[cabowen]

like 飲兵衛 [のんべえ: NONBEE] :lol: