Need Assistance In Translating Inscription On Sword Tang

substandard · September 18, 2013

I recently acquired a Japanese sword blade, that unfortunately has seen better days. The blade was found rusty in a trash dumpster, and the person who found it sanded the rust away. I had a local Japanese woman look at the sword, however she was unable to read the inscription as it is in what she termed, "old Japanese". Any help in determining more information on this blade would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Inscription on one side of the tang. Starting from the tang going towards the area where the Tsuba would be.

Inscription on the other side, again starting from the end of the tang

cabowen · September 18, 2013

I think this smith is Hakuryushi Ietsugu from Izumo. Dated Meiji 3, April.

雲陽母里藩白龍子家次造

明治三年四月日

Gabriel L · September 18, 2013

EDIT: Pretty impressive job Chris, reading that sosho script. I find kanji hard enough at times...

...the person who found it sanded the rust away.

I wish we could somehow broadcast a message to the world population: "stop ruining swords by attempting to "polish" them yourself!"

Post pics of the whole blade. Even though the value has been obliterated by ruining the nakago, it is still a genuine old sword and the blade could theoretically be salvaged by a professional togishi (depending on what other damage may have been done). Now, who is going to pay the $3k (and what togishi will accept the job) on a ruined sword... not for me to say. But let's at least see what there is to see first.

Cheers,

—G.

k morita · September 18, 2013

Chris san,

You have improved in your Sosho kanji reading. Great!

A little correction:

The second kanji is 州 , and the 5th kanji is 住 .

雲州母里住白龍子家次造

Made by Hakuryushi Ietsugu,living in Mori,Izumo province.

cabowen · September 18, 2013

Thanks! Still a long way to go.....

substandard · September 19, 2013

Thank you very much for your translation, Chris.

If I understand correctly, "Dated Meiji 3 April" would mean this blade was made during the reign of Emperor Meiji (1867-1912).

Having an interest in history and weaponry, how would the quality of this blade compare to, say, an earlier 1600 AD era sword? I know that Japan was shifting toward a more modern military in the late 1800s, and I assume the demand for swords would have declined during this time.

The blade measures 43.25" overall with a cutting blade of 32.125". There is some pitting in the metal and nicks in the blade edge. To my untrained eye it looks as if the blade tip has been altered as well. What would a rough value be on this blade? I would like to see it go to a person that would give it the respect that it deserves. Thank you to all the members of the forum, you have been most helpful.

cabowen · September 19, 2013

You are most welcome.

It is pretty beat up and would need the services of a professional polisher to restore it properly, assuming it can be restored (it may not be). That work is very expensive, upwards of $5000 for a sword of this size with all the extras like import/export, etc.

It would be about a break even deal if it turned out well. Big risk though...Thus, in its present state, it isn't worth much. PM or email me if you want more info on restoration.

Gabriel L · September 19, 2013

If I understand correctly, "Dated Meiji 3 April" would mean this blade was made during the reign of Emperor Meiji (1867-1912).

To be specific, Meiji nengo begins in 1868 (Meiji 1) so Meiji 3 is 1870.

Having an interest in history and weaponry, how would the quality of this blade compare to, say, an earlier 1600 AD era sword? I know that Japan was shifting toward a more modern military in the late 1800s, and I assume the demand for swords would have declined during this time.

Changes in the Japanese sword over history is a long, multifaceted, and rich topic – hard to give an answer to this question that is not grossly incomplete. I encourage you to check out Dr. Stein's webpage, including articles like blade shape changes, read one or more of the introductory books, etc.

In the Meiji period the wearing of swords in public was outlawed. This crushed the sword industry and very few smiths continued to make a living during this time. So the few people still making traditional swords are noteworthy for that reason at the least. They were still making swords using traditional methods and materials; by this late era, however, a VERY general trend is that a lot of buyers were wealthy collectors (e.g. merchants) and decoration, ornamentation, artistry etc. was in vogue. Whereas in the early Edo period you might see more restraint, following proscriptions about sword length etc.... again, extremely general trends. Every sword has to be judged for its own qualities. Quality ultimately depends more on who made it (and how well, some smiths varied) than on the era in which it was made – although again, there are general trends (everyone wants a Kamakura period masterpiece, everyone treats a mumei Muromachi period blade with initial skepticism, etc.).

The blade measures 43.25" overall with a cutting blade of 32.125".

That's fairly large. Usually longer swords are made to make a statement... either special ordered, or as an artistic choice (edit: speaking contextually, here; obviously during certain time periods, e.g. Nambokucho, some Kamakura, etc. long nagasa was the norm). But it always depends on the smith. Though I can see this smith listed in the usual indexes I don't have any more info than that (my resources are not the most comprehensive by any means though).

There is some pitting in the metal and nicks in the blade edge. To my untrained eye it looks as if the blade tip has been altered as well. What would a rough value be on this blade?

Hard to judge value when it's in this condition, too many variables. Can't see the workmanship to judge the quality; don't know what flaws may lurk under the rust; need a professional togishi's opinion on if it can be restored at all; etc. etc. It is a genuine old Japanese sword, so once it is restored it would normally have a certain base value (several thousand at least, and it goes up from there based on the smith and the quality)... but again, because of the sanded down nakago, it will have taken a hit on whatever price this smith will normally command. Sorry I don't feel comfortable throwing out random numbers. But on a purely financial basis it would not make sense to restore it. Restoration therefore is something that would be done because as someone who likes Japanese swords, you want to see it fixed. Then if it turns out to be valuable, it's a bonus. But that's a very hard sell when restoration is so expensive!

I would like to see it go to a person that would give it the respect that it deserves. Thank you to all the members of the forum, you have been most helpful.

You're welcome, though my only real contribution to this thread (this post) is a very humble one. Chris can definitely help you with getting it into and out of Japan for restoration, but I might also mention that there are a very few qualified people in North America as well. I don't have a strong opinion on what the best approach would be in this case, just throwing that possibility out there.

Regards,

—G.

runagmc · September 19, 2013

In the meantime you can wipe the blade down with mineral oil to keep any further corrosion from taking place. If you take some better pictures and post them, you might get some offers from board members... that is, if you want to sell it.

substandard · September 19, 2013

I would like to once again thank Chris, and all the members of this forum that have taken time to comment. This is a very helpful and polite forum, some times those are hard to find on the internet.

After considering the information, and getting some advice, I have decided to keep the blade for now. I hope to get the blade polished in the future, but for now I will keep it in the gun safe as an interesting bit of history.