Wanted opinions on a couple Tsuba

[lotus]

Was looking at a couple Tsuba and wanted your opinions on them. Per the 1st one, the seller attributes this to Akasaka school. Would you agree? And how would one determine if it is early or late Akasaka? Are there some defining characteristics. Also, to me, it also looks like a Higo Nishagaki.

 

Per the second one, the seller has no attribution, but I would venture a guess that it is a late Aizu Shoami piece? This is a guess based on a similar one I found at another site. Look forward to hearing what you all think.

 

Thanks!

[Curran]

No and No.

 

These are pretty simple. Not too far off the mark. Someone else might give you a detailed reply, but really you should figure these out yourself.

Should take you 20 minutes with some basic references.

[lotus]

I finally had some time to look into the 1st tsuba a bit more. This is an often used motif called the 3 Pines. You often see it in Higo, Akasaka, and Shoami works. That said, I no longer like either the Akasaka or Higo as an attribution for it.

 

Here are the things that concern me :

 

- Could not locate any Akasaka/Higo samples with that squared off mokko gata (its a bit odd) Typically, on 3 Pines design you see circular shaped rim and often representing part of the tree (bit wavy) or a more rounded mokko as in the Akasaka example I attached (3rd tsuba).

- Rim varies in width (wider one one side). Though this may be a design element, I think it is a poor one.

- The seppa dai is poorly executed (top is sloppy)

- The bottom most tree just seems jammed in (see my attached examples of a proper design). Is the trunk of that tree part of the rim or the trunk on the right of the tree??? Not great, IMO.

- Lastly, all good examples of the 3 pines tsuba that I found were so much better (composition and detail)

 

I can't tell much from the iron quality due to the pics. But, with all that said, I simply think this Tsuba is not good enough to be called either Akasaka or Higo. Possibly a late model Shoami copy? Bit of backrgound info, this tsuba was part of Giorgio di Nepi's collection if that means anything to anyone.

 

Any other thoughts?

[Curran]

I respect your follow up work. I feel you got to the answer yourself.

 

Comments: of the 3 images you posted->

(1) the mfa is a fine one probably attributable to the Hayashi school. Did pop up in other Higo schools. Might even pull an attribution to 2nd or third gen in Nishigaki or Hayashi school.

(2) the second it more at the level of the one you initially asked about. "Higo" but not really distinct for a specific Higo school attribution.

(3) third one is an example of the interplay between Higo and Akasaka designs later on in Edo. Clearly an Akasaka tsuba.

 

Attached is an image of a Hozon papered one similar to the one you posted.

They are good enough to pull a "Higo" designation, better than a "kodai-Higo", but worse than a specific school attribution like "Hayashi".

As you noted, lots of little things racking up demerits. Overall appearance not as balanced as the MFA one you posted.

 

Generally, consider NBTHK papered:

(1) Specific to 1st gen: $7500 to ??? (sky is the limit, I've seen Hozon shodai Jingo sell for $90,000)

(2) Specific to second or third generation Higo maker: $5000 to 20000 (sky is the limit)

(3) Specific Higo school: $2000 to $5000 depending upon quality and condition

(4) "Higo" : $750 to $1500

(5) "Ko-dai Higo": $200 - $750

(6) Edo Higo: depends, sort of equiv of Higo & ko-dai Higo ($200-$1200)

 

This is my current opinion. The first one you posted would probably be in the lower end of the #4 category if it had NBTHK papers.

 

Curran

[Soshin]

Hi Curran,

 

Thanks for the very informative reply. I came across this tsuba with a NBTHK Hozon paper with a "Kodai Jingo" attribution on Aoi Art website: http://www.aoi-art.com/fittings/tsuba/F09562.html. Would it be classified in the level 5 category? The price at 83,000 Yen is a bit much for being a tsuba from a later generation. This tsuba might fall within the grey area between your categories. Just wanted to post it as I also like the design.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[lotus]

Curran -

 

I really appreciate the info you gave. It is really helpful for me just starting out. The categories you provided are great. I stumbled on another "3 Pine" themed Tsuba that I am very seriously considering. This time, I did my homework and hit my book and the web and feel I have a solid attribution with sound reasons behind them . However, since it is a different piece, I am going to start a new topic on it and see what you guys think for an attribution. It has some interesting differences to other ones sharing the same motif.

 

Thanks again, and I hope to hear your opinions on the new thread. Even if it is to say that it isn't very good

 

ps. David, that is a very cool Tsuba that you posted and I look forward to any feedback you might get.

[Curran]

David,

 

Yeah, let us harken back to those of us geeky enough to admit to having played D&D.

We'll say it is +2 for getting the 'Jingo' attribution, but -1 for the Kodai handle.

Not too my liking.

 

But then the NBTHK sometimes muffs it up. This one at Aoi Arts:

http://www.aoi-art.com/fittings/tsuba/F12134.html

 

My feeling is it should have gotten a specific school attribution.

 

Patrick- thanks for the recognition that we try to help.

[ROKUJURO]

......I came across this tsuba with a NBTHK Hozon paper with a "Kodai Jingo" attribution on Aoi Art website.....

Maybe it is my eyes but I read an attribution to KODAI HIGO.

[Curran]

Jean C.,

 

You are absolutely correct. When David posted it, I would swear it said "Kodai Jingo". Now it just says "Kodai Higo".

I checked the Japanese version of the site and it too says "Kodai Higo". I don't know whether it was corrected, or I made a mistake.

 

But Tsuruta-san speaks/reads excellent English and is a lurker here.

(Edit:) David may have meant to link to this similar one at Aoi Arts: http://www.aoi-art.com/fittings/tsuba/F12242.html

[Soshin]

Hi Curran and Jean C.,

 

Sorry about that here is the tsuba I was referring to: http://www.aoijapan.com/tsuba-mumei-unsigned-kodai-jingo-school-spider. I justed linked to the wrong but similar tsuba. Here is another tsuba for sale with a "Ko-dai Jingo" attribution from the NBTHK: http://www.nihonto-collectors.de/en/schwertzubehor-tosogu/tsuba/tsuba-mumei-jingo-mit-nbthk-tokubetsu-kicho-papieren. I really like the tsuba regarless of the "Ko-dai" attribution and I consider the price fair. Theoretically any of the Higo school that lasted into the Meiji Period could get this "Ko-dai" attribution on their later works that still has some clear characteristics what would indicate a specific Higo school. Those many later pieces that lacked any clear characteristics of a specific school would get the "Kodai Higo" attribution by the NBTHK.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles