Question on style of this Tsuba

[lotus]

Attached are 2 tsuba, the first one is from Skip Holbrook 's collection and is described as Bizen Shoami.

 

As for the second one, I was going through the Boston MFA site and noticed a Tsuba sharing the same design. For the most part, just a couple small differences. That one is said to be from the Higo School, Nishigaki Sub-school.

 

My question is, do different schools share Tsuba designs like this? Or is one of them associated with the wrong school?

 

Thanks,

Pat R.

[sanjuro]

I'm not a tsuba man by any stretch of the imagination, but I have seen a lot of them, and handled some beautiful examples both of design and of material. Its not so much a question of the design, more it is the question of how that design was executed and the quality of the base material that differs between schools (and quality) There were standard designs and the cherry blossom was one of the most common. Many schools were 'cross pollinated' as far as the basic motif was concerned. If you look at the two pieces you have sited as examples, it is obvious the ex Skip Holbrook tsuba is superior in execution. Its a little difficult to compare quality of material with only a photograph to go by, but it would appear that the second example is relying on an element of rusticity rather than the Holbrook tsuba which relies on a finer execution of the theme common to the two examples. Some of the more experienced and knowledgable Tsuba guys would be able to site more and finer differences.

[Soshin]

Hi Pat R.,

 

In terms of quaily I would agree with Keith G. that Grey's is better. To me the second tsuba shows no characteristics that remind me of Higo workmenship. The best way I determine this first is by the shape of the ryohitsu-ana and seppa-dai. The color of the patina is also not characteric of any the Higo schools. The second tsuba is likely just a later Shoami tsuba of a bit lower quality in terms of design composition. It also lacks the nice gold inlay work. The condition is also far better in the first tsuba.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Ford Hallam]

For starters I'd suggest the MFA attribution is wrong. Theres almost nothing other than that wavy rim to link that example with Higo work.

 

The workmanship and stylistic similarities between the 2 tsuba illustrated are so close as to make it almost certain they came for the same studio or group.

 

I have to disagree with Keith and David and say that in my opinion the MFA example is a finer and more expressive work. The Holbrook example lacks real vitality as far as I'm concerned and this is a fundamental trait one ought to look for in strong examples of country work (or more accurately work done in a naive style) , as exemplified by the Bizen Shoami. The actual design in the MFA version also seems to be better interpreted whereas the Holbrook version seems uninspired.

[Curran]

Don't trust the Boston MFA attributions or veracity of the signatures on the ones they have read.

 

Good museum. Excellent collection.

Yet could stand some volunteer work to help the cataloging. I don't think Ogawa-san can be pressed into going through all them, and don't think anyone else there wants to admit they aren't experts in this small yet very deep field of study.

 

Some of the iron tsuba are rusting away severely from inside the sukashi. Don't know why. Can only guess that they were treated improperly at one point and the process unhalted is eating out the walls. At least the kinko ones will survive.

[Soshin]

Hi Pat R.,

 

It should be noted that MFA example is not without merit. The continuation of the organic wood bark texture along the rim is nice and reminds of some Higo tsuba. The first tsuba still in my subjective opinion has a better open work composition along with fine gold inlay work. In a more objective area Grey's tsuba is in much better condition then the MFA example.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Ford Hallam]

David,

 

that "organic wood bark texture along the rim" is of course one of the defining characteristics of this type of tsuba but I wouldn't say it's reminiscent of Higo styling really.

 

With regard to the openwork composition allow me to challenge your assessment. :-) With all such openwork designs, and in fact any such positive/negative sort of design, equal attention ought to be given to both the 'black' and the 'white', as it were. The interplay of these negative shapes with themselves and in contrast with the solid parts is how a designer would judge the success of the work.

 

All artists make use of pattern, repeating (echoing) shapes and rhythm to create lively and interesting compositions.

 

If you compare these 2 versions and bear these ideas in mind you may begin to see them a little differently. Just take the actual negative shapes that each tsuba presents. I think it's quite evident the MFA tsuba is far more interesting and that the lines that describe the negative shapes create a very lively and dynamic rhythm around the whole piece. These traits are for the most part missing in the Holbrook example. imo

[watsonmil]

Dear All,

Far be it from me to boast any expertise on Tsuba, ... although I own several, ... I am not a serious student of the subject. I always bought what I liked ( could afford ). Having said that I would just like to add my opinion for posterity. I have to agree with Ford on the quality, desirability of the two examples pictured. To me the MFA example looks alive and vibrant ( much the way a quality Netsuke comes to life in your hand as compared to just lying sort of dead in your hand as you find in lesser quality Netsuke or copies of netsuke ). Just for the hell of it, ... I asked my wife and her girl friend to have a look and give an opinion. Both picked the MFA example over the Holbrook. True the patina on the Holbrook example is better, ... but here again I find the Patina or lack thereof on the MFA example not as detracting as David's opinion. In addition I do not find the " gold inlay " or better put gold wash ( plating ) adds anything to the subject. Just a difference in what different people consider attractive.

... Ron Watson

[Soshin]

Hi Ford,

 

Thanks for the reply. I find your well worded explanation about the negative and positive elements helpful for my study. I still wish the MFA example was kept in better condition.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Ford Hallam]

Happy to add what I can, David

[Curran]

David: As do I.

 

Visited Boston and my college roommate and I took the day off to go see the MFA collection in our areas of interest.

Saw a lot of the famous pieces I'd seen on display before. Many of the iron ones are pierced through in the sukashi walls, as if someone had punched holes in a traditional paper screen.

 

Best guess is they were soaked in something not quite neutral enough and then cleaned in a fashion removing it from the most accessible surfaces. The less direct surfaces looks slowly chemically eaten.

[lotus]

I agree with Ford that they probably came from the same school. Also, I had to relook at both and compositionally, I would have to agree that the second one is much more appealing. Though, I wonder if part of the problem lies with the Tsuba being photographed at an angle versus straight on. The only straight on shot of that Tsuba is of the back side so I thought I would attach it. Seems better compositionally looking straight on. Also, I noticed the MFA tree trunk is much more gnarly than the smooth Holbrook one.

[Ford Hallam]

Interesting, :? the rim appears to have been laid out by a drunk man as does the seppa-dai. :lol:

 

It would be helpful to see a full frontal of this one but judging from the other images it seems to me the maker didn't really 'get' the original design. It's a bit like doing a tracing of the original version and then doing a tracing on that copy etc. After a few such reworks the essential qualities that enliven the original are lost and the design becomes a vague representation. If you examine the lines and textures on the MFA version and how they work with the lines of the composition compared to the arbitrary marks on this version I think the difference becomes even more clear.

[sanjuro]

Gee.... That backside straight on shot of the Holbrook tsuba sure shows up some rather disturbing misalignments. The mimi almost looks like an afterthought, and the seppa dai now appears rather skewed. They were of course there to see in the angle shot of the front side, but not as noticeable. A good example of how the perspective of a photograph can mask the degree of such things. Also I guess of how one can get carried away by the motif rather than considering the tsuba as an artistic whole.

I have to say that personally I am not drawn to either of these tsuba at all. Would they be generally considered as fairly mediocre examples by those who like this particular sukashi style?

[lotus]

I am absolutely new to this area of study and can honestly say I missed the misalignments and drunken rim work. My eye has not been trained to look for such things so this is all a learning experience for me. But now, after they are pointed out to me, I can see them clearly. Personally speaking, I know that I have been "carried away" by a motif and as a result, overlooked some things. A few times actually, and this board as been great at pointing out those things out to me. It has been great.

 

However, I am beginning to worry if I can actually afford this new hobby of mine! As you know, the better tsuba usually command the higher prices!!

 

Pat R.

[Ford Hallam]

Keith, Pat,

 

you've both touched on a central point of connoisseurship. To train our eyes to more accurately asses things it's important to try and be a little detached from the actual subject matter. A simple example would be a poorly carved tiger or a superbly rendered spray of flowers. The fact that a person might find tigers more 'manly' than some girly flowers will unconsciously sway that person's judgement. The trick is to learn to be a little more systematic or organised in terms of how we look and judge.

 

I would say that of the 2 the MFA tsuba is a fair example of it's type. It's important that different types/styles of work are judged within the context of their specific genre so it's is not helpful to judge, for example, Akasaka work against Ko-mino, apples and oranges One might reasonably say that the carving on these Bizen Shoami pieces isn't as controlled and refined as that we see on Kinai (for example) but that would miss the point of the aesthetic the Bizen work is obviously expressing. It's not trying to be extremely refined, it's a deliberately naive and bold/gestural style. Of course, different individuals will be drawn to different style and aesthetic expressions but that would be applying ones subjective, personal taste.

 

Pat,

it's true to a certain extent that better tsuba do cost more BUT not all very expensive tsuba are necessarily good. Big names command high price tags but not each work by the same artist is equally great. Conversely, great work is sometimes seen that was perhaps a lesser known artist's masterpiece. Discernment is a matter of seeing the difference. Also, and this is something I frequently see, there are actually many very reasonable (to fine) examples of tsuba out there that are very reasonably priced. The game is to really learn to spot those unseen sleepers. You'd be surprised how many really excellent pieces are floating around unrecognized because they don't have big names on them or over hyped descriptive labels.