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Everything posted by estcrh
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Thanks Ian!!! An awesome piece, and very similar to the one I posted for sure. A lot of recycling going on there, especially if the armor pieces were previously from a horse armor. I wonder if the one I posted is made from the same type of recycled armor plates as I do not see that style of really small square armor plates being commonly used elsewere?
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if you open the pdf and look at section 2.1. PARTICULAR KIND OF GUN Bôbiya and hiyadutu. The weapon called a "hiyadutu" looks a lot like the unknown weapon discussed here. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2554&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=estcrh&start=1200
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Cory, you have a great story to tell and I can assure you that 99.9% of forum members would not mind helping you find out more information about your swords if they can. As you can tell, experienced people on this forum take the subject of Japanese swords very seriously and they cringe at the thought of a sword being touched by bare hands or being placed on a surface that may damage it etc. Most forum members are very understanding of people who come into ownership of a Japanese sword with out the knowledge to proper take care of it and will be happy to give you some sword care advice. In order to help you, some better pictures are absolutely needed, take a look at some of the old posts and see how the swords are presented for viewing. It would help you to have some knowledge of Japanese sword terms so here is a link to a very good site by a forum member. http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/glossary.htm If you learn some of the basic sword terms it will help you to communicate with other members a lot and show them that you are actually interested in learning. When you mention "value" here it can cause some members to assume that you might be using the forum to gain information in order to sell you sword for a higher value, I do not believe that is your intention but it has happened before. One more thing, You should add your name to your profile, there is a place to put it so that it will automatically show on all of your posts, it is a requirement of the forum and will allow people responding and reading your posts to know who you are.
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Malcolm, thanks for this info, the pdf has some very interesting facts. http://www.rekihaku.ac.jp/exhibitions/p ... 1003_e.pdf
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Some different yari pictures from a book on sale in Japan right now. http://www.jauce.com/view2.php?seturl=h ... w59891478#
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I Just found this photo, its the first time I have seen it and only the second old photo showing chain armor being worn, its titled as "Estate Guards" supposedly taken by Beato. It is unusual in that it may not have been staged in a studio or at least it looks like it could have been taken outside. The chain armor jackets "kusuri katabira" and chain armor hoods "kusari zunin" some with forehead protectors "hachi gane" are typical light weight portable armored clothing. The guy on the left appears to be wearing a pair of armored half gauntlets "han kote".
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John, the difference between the gold menuki I am seeing online and the ones you were sold is striking. The ones you have are lacking any sign of ever having a post attached and there are no file marks, the backs look polished unlike the ones I am seeing. I would help to have better pictures of the front, but from what I am seeing I can understand why you were concerned.
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There is an excellent book called ''Tanegashima The Arrival of Europe in Japan" by Olof G Lindin. In his book Lindin makes a point of noting that the lord of the island were the Portuguese first landed (Lord Tanegashima Tokitaka) in 1543 appointed a local sword smith (Yaita) the task of replicating the 1 or 2 Tanegashima which lord Tokitaka had purchased from the Portuguese. The smith yaita did not have much of a problem with most of the gun but "drilling the barrel helically so that the screw could be tightly inserted'' was a major problem as "This technique did apparently not exist in Japan until this time'' Lindin writes that the Portuguese fixed their ship and left the island and only in the next year when a Portuguese blacksmith was brought back to Japan was the problem solved.
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Here are a two pair of gold menuki as a comparison. http://www.nihonto.com/itemsalemenuki.html
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Ron, have you ever seen any evidence of how the Japanese turned the threads of barrels, bolts etc that are threaded?
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Ron, to be fair it was Carlo that mentioned the taper. The item in question sold for around $600, someone thought it was unusual enough to spend a relative fortune for a strange jutte thing considering the really exquisite jutte I see sell for half that price. ..
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John, not to derail this thread but I do remember you mentioning this incident awhile back, now that I know who it is I can say this...I bought several items from him a few yrs ago, I have even been to his house, and I can not imaging him being involved in a dispute like this, its disturbing and shocking to me...if he is a member of the forum I urge him to reconsider and accept the return of the items, even if he is convinced of their authenticity. Hearing this of course makes be reconsider ever buying anything from him in the future.
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John, I see that he still has %100 feed back?
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The taper is wrong, a gun barrel maker would have the means to thread the opposite end of a barrel and to make a attachment to screw into the threads though. It seems to have been custom made. Which leads to another question....what method did the Japanese use for cutting threads? I have not yet seen a picture of a lathe being used.
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Ron I was thinking the same thing, a gun barrel, but it would have been much easier to simply convert it into a tobikuchi, for some reason it seems to be a dual purpose item, which made me think once again about yours. Jutte are said to be as much a badge of office as a weapon and maybe the tobikuchi was the same. Perhaps just having one gave the owner a certain amount of authority in an emergency, if you were both a police officer and fireman at the same time it would be cheaper to have both symbols in one, and easier to carry.....just a thought.
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Returns:Returns accepted...That is the sellers policy, I would send them a link to the one you found, its entirely possible that they have no idea that they were fooled. It would be a good idea to post some pictures here of your next possible purchase and get some help from more knowledgeable members..also think about buying from one of the many forum members who have items for sale before taking a risk on ebay.
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I saw this unusual tobikuchi / jutte and remembered this thread. I have never seen this type before and thought I would post some pictures. http://page16.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/u33661815
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Thanks for the info. I just saw another Chinese or at least Asian pole weapon ( half moon shaped) with a long socket and no hole, the owner said it was a ceremonial parade type, maybe pitch would work in that case. I couldnt see a real weapon not having some way to attach the pole securely.
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Piers, thanks for the answers, I have not seen a socketed (fukuro) yari with only one mekugi, thats good to know. As for the yari pole length, I was going by what I have seen for sale and usually with naginata and yari a very long pole indicated a older blade (but not always of course). Now with the extra expense $$$$$ of shipping any pole over a certain length the long poles get cut down. Unless you can find one already in your country it is almost impossible to get an original long pole anymore.
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Maybe Ian or someone else can answer this question....I have seen a lot of pictures of old Chinese spears but I can not remember seeing exactly how the socket of an authentic Chinese spear was attached to the pole, did they have 1 hole or 2 like a Japanese socketed spear? The only supposedly authentic Chinese spear I was able to see had no hole in the socket at all, the owner said that pitch was used to attach the pole but I have not been able to find any proof of that statement.
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Henry, check out these links from this site. http://www.workingdogweb.com/Bronze-Mirrors.htm http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ ... gdogwebboo http://www.asiawind.com/antiques/mirrors.htm http://www.chinatoday.com.cn/English/e20039/9p46.htm http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ ... gdogwebboo
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Henry, you might find some help on the China history forum. http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/
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Piers, at that length it may be quite old, I hope it stays intact. Some more pictures I hope if you acquire it eventually.
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Piers, I searched for pictures of Kudayari and yours are among the very few available, thanks. Do you know how long the entire yari is?
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Ian, I think you are right about the kohaze, I have seen similar ones on really nice dou's and never on this type of armor, it did look unusual to me. I am not quite sure what this type of armor plate would be called, karuta is the closest to describing it that I can think of. I would like to see the one in the Liverpool Museum as I have only seen one other katabira that was even close to this style.