Natichu

While I (unsurprisingly) have no insights to share, I for one would love to see more pictures of the rest of the sword if you're willing to share!

While I haven't seen this "study" you're referencing, I'm not sure your conclusions follow or derision makes any sense, at least from your description of it. Do you have a link or source setting out the methodology? More generally, any list of top wines is one person or panel's subjective opinions, and one wouldn't expect a different person or panel to reproduce it. It's not some list with objectively gradiating features that distinguish one from the other in terms of "quality" when clearly they are all good wines. This is why people into wine read reviews and rankings lists written by multiple people and learn to understand the tastes and preferences of the reviewers and how they match up with their own. The question I would have thought more pertinent would be whether the experts (who I'll assume were sommeliers, not just connoisseurs) could identify the wines, not order them based on the results of someone else's rankings. This isn't to say there isn't plenty of bunk in the wine world, but I'm not sure whatever it is you've identified here counts for much. Regardless, back to swords, and while I certainly can't speak to any requirements of assessors, nyusatsu kantei is very much a thing and one would imagine something they participate in regularly. It might be worth your checking out the regular kantei problems posted by the NBTHK (latest here: https://www.touken.or.jp/english/nbthk/swordjournal_December.html) and referencing some of the usual books on the process.

Useful article here from Markus Sesko on Tensho vs Keicho suriage: https://markussesko.com/2018/04/25/tensho-suriage-and-keicho-suriage/

Very interesting, first as I've been pining after a Nobutaka wakizashi in Eirakudo (https://eirakudo.shop/601981), but also as it reminds me of one of the recent NBTHK kantei problems available on their website. I again thought Nanbokucho Mino and in my head guessed Naoe, whereas the correct answer was Horikawa Kunihiro. While I don't know that I can do a translation any justice, the initial discussion on the sugata points to viable options as Nanbokucho, Keicho Shinto (and very late Muromachi), and Shinshinto. It then goes on to discuss why the first and last options didn't fit the bill. Problem and solution images below:

Just for example on that point, you have this on Touken Komachi as well (quite a nice sword to my eye, but with a few knocks against being likely shinshinto suriage and mumei): https://www.toukenkomachi.com/index_ja_tachi&katanaA021125.html Kurashiki papers to a jojo-saku ranked smith, and then four months later NBTHK papers Hozon to...Takada. Not to knock Takada (I have a lot of interest in the school) but that seems like a pretty significant downgrade.

Thanks for this Jussi. Just in terms of showing my thought process (primarily so that my beginner mistakes can be highlighted for me) to my eye Nanbokucho sugata, with the size and o-suriage pointing to that period rather than a retro throwback from a later period. Masame/nagare in the shinogi-ji pointing to Mino-den, and togari elements in the hamon agreeing with that. Guess is Naoe Shizu (maybe Kanetomo or Kanenobu?).

I may have something that fits the bill that I'm debating parting with. Am tied up for the next few days but want to shoot me a PM? Hozon, late Muromachi, shobu zukuri. Otherwise there are a few good options (at least to my beginner mind) in the for sale section here on NMB. Would also recommend checking out Touken Komachi as Tsukada-san is great to work with and she has quite a few reasonably priced offerings: https://www.toukenkomachi.com/index_en_tachi&katana.html

Is the mei signed over top of the patina/corrosion on the nakago?

For reference, some of the security features of the Hozon and Tokubetsu Hozon papers are discussed here: https://www.nihontocraft.com/japanese_sword_papers.html

My apologies for the quote Rohan, but I can't get the spoiler box to work on my phone. Have edited the contents of the spoiler box (so its content is mine, not Rohan's), though conveniently I agree with Rohan's order.

My understanding was that the NBTHK only specifies generations in rather rare cases (or I suppose better put, typically does not specify generation). Am I incorrect in this, or is there a peculiar exception for this school?

Now that is quite the stunning piece. Not to sidetrack from the original topic too much, but would you mind posting the measurements of the Sukesada?

Very interested to see what the more experienced members think, but just on their face they seem quite different pieces, while both gorgeous. A large and wide Enbun-Joji sugata Yamato style katana vs a rather elegant katateuchi-seeming Bizen blade (at least to my beginner eye, given its short length, narrow width, and shorter nakago). I like them both, but would enjoy hearing what draws you to each of them.

Phenomenal, thank you very much! That is extremely helpful and greatly appreciated.

Hi Michael, Yes, it should be Hoki Province with work in the Shinshinto period (Ansei era ish), and one of the smith's names was indeed Shimizu Yoshiyuki (apparently after being adopted by another swordsmith it seems). I think you have found him there.

Just to close this particular loop, on pages 154-56 of Paul Martin's Japanese Swords and Armor, the author has included photos of several pieces of tosogu attributed to Miyamoto Musashi, as well as a bokuto attributed to him. With respect to the bokuto, Mr. Martin states the bokuto "was made by Miyamoto Musashi at the request of the lord of Matsui Castle, Matsui Yoriyuki. He asked Musashi to make a bokutō...to the same dimensions as he had used in his last duel on Ganryujima. The bokutō is of faulty standard dimensions ensuring its ease of use, just in an extended length ." (italics omitted)

Thanks so much for the photos. I can't quite tell from the photo, but was the boshi on the Kiyomitsu ichimai? Looks like it flares out at the yokote, but I can't quite tell if I see a maru and kaeri or if it's just all hardened.

Many thanks for the thoughts there Dee! Just caught my eye as aside from some of the shinshinto kinnoto, I don't know that I've seen many measurements of quite those lengths for more standard shinto katana (not that they didn't exist I'm sure, and assuming the ronin weren't carrying long ubu koto tachi).

I believe there is one of his bokuto featured in Paul Martin's latest book, but will double check when I get home. There also a few fittings that the NBTHK have certified as having been made by the man himself (including at last one set of menuki). As to the original list, what seems odd to me is the length of quite a number of them. Several of the katana are listed at 2.8 shaku, 2.9 shaku, and 3 shaku, which seems out of keeping with most Shinto era pieces. Does anyone else feel like these measurements might have included the nakago?

Thank you very much Michael! Will have a search and see about picking up a copy. If you're able to look up the smith when the book arrives, I'd very much appreciate it.

Have checked with Matsumoto Touken, who have indicated the information is from Nihonto no Kenkyu To Kantei (Shinto volume) by Tsuneishi Hideaki. Have started a thread to see about getting my hands on at least an extract but we'll see how we do!

Hi all, I'm hoping to see if anyone has access to the Shinto Edition of Nihonto no Kenkyu To Kantei by Tsuneishi Hideaki, and in particular the extract in that book about the Shinshinto smith Shohoken Yoshiyuki. I may well put up a "want to buy" thread in due course either way (I have already emailed Grey Doffin as I see he previously had a copy for sale), but figured I would see if anyone was able and willing to provide the relevant extract for my current research purposes. Many thanks in advance!

https://www.samuraishokai.jp/sword/25157.html Just in case you're still looking.

I would just say that on the boshi front, if it is Jizo boshi I do note both Nakahara and Nagayama due list Mino, and in particular Sue-Seki, for that boshi type.

The funbari on that piece seems quite something!