reinhard

Sorry to disappoint you, but this tsuba is far from the craftsmanship that can be expected of Umetada kinko.
Another famous name abused for commercial purposes.

reinhard

19 hours ago, Gakusee said:

Thanks, Reinhard. Which assertions did you mean? I read it too long ago to remember anything controversial and thought it a very basic and good starter book, which helped with basics and kanji etc. 
Cannot comment on B H Chamberlain at all. 

 

First of all:

Mentioning Basil Hall Chamberlain was a silly mistake from my side (although his book about his life in Japan during Meiji-period is still highly informative and much recommended).

I meant Mr. Basil Robinson's book about the swords in the Victoria and Albert museum written in the 1960's (if I remember correctly. Dont send me to the attic, please).

Many of the "big name swords" there can't be taken seriously for what they were meant to be at the time.

Mr.Robinson relied on old Japanese sources more or less valid at the time without having deeper knowledge of Nihon-To himself.

Famous example: The Daisho given to Field Marshall Sir Francis Festing is definitely not was it is claiming to be.

That was half a century ago and a lot of research had been done since then.

 

The same goes for John Yumoto's book from 1958 (if remember correctly. Don't want to search it in the attic to make sure).

Mr. Yumoto noticed that many servicemen brought back home souvenirs from the WWII-East-Asia campaign to the US and didn't know anything about.

Giving them a guide to understand what they have was a respectable task.

Nevertheless John Yumoto is repeating the then accepted kanon of informations outdated by now.

It is common sense by now that transformation from simple Choku-To to Nihon-To was completed during later Heian-period.

There was no Lamborghini Miura before Ford-T.

Nevertheless Mr. Yumoto is repeating old tabulates confirming the idea that there were smiths like Amakuni and Amafuji propelling swords into Nihon-To masterpieces 800 AD.

The main reason why I reject Mr.Yumoto's work is:

At the end of his book he is offering a rating system, which cannot be taken seriously.

 

reinhard

 

 

 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Gakusee said:

John Yumoto’s and Basil Robinson’s books are a good very basic start together with Yurie’s and Markus Sesko’s (but the latter could also have advanced stuff, such as kantei by boshi or the kantei from the NBTHK magazine). 

I would leave Fujishiro, Nagayama, Honma/Sato (eg the translated Koza) for more intermediate and advanced studies. 
Tanobe’s Gokaden books. Etc. 
 

Then, for most advanced stuff, the various meikan, the particular school’s Taikan as well as the big Taikan, the Juyo Zufu, the NBTHK magazine. Here one could include all sorts of more advanced literature (eg the Kanto Hibisho, or Showa Dai Meito). 

John Yumoto's book is filled with unproven assertions.

B.H.Chamberlain's book is full of fake blades.

 

Not their fault. They didn't know better at their time.

 

We do, now.

 

5 hours ago, ckaiserca said:

Without looking at the blades, the tsukamaki should have been a clue to the sword's legitimacy.

Not posting this for experienced members familiar with the crooks out there.

It is meant to be an advice for the newbies and beginners.

 

LOOK CLOSE AND LOOK CAREFULLY!

 

Japanese craftsmanship is about precision and control.

It has never substantially declined.

 

1) Tsuka-Ito should be wrapped in a symmetrical manner, i.e. left over right, right over left, left over right, and so on..

2) The outline of Tsuka-Ito must be smooth, no bumps allowed.

3) Diamond-shape openings must be uniform and precise.

 

Real rayskin or just a plastic substitute?

 

1) Real rayskin always has a symmetrical structure and is carefully placed on the tsuka.

2) Real rayskin has a natural appearce. Plastic substitutes have not.

 

Menuki underneath Ito.

 

Unfortunately sometimes it is dificult to check menuki underneath ito.

There are are some hints you can go for though.

Does it look like a thin foil of metal stamped out, as in this case, or like a proper menuki.

Do the menuki appear to be three-dimensional?

Are details carefully worked-out, f.e. dragon scales, or not.

 

 

 

I don't know wether it is easy to obtain by now, but after many years of studying Nihon-To I strongly recommend:

"The connaisseur's book of Japanese swords" by Nagayama Kokan (ISBN 4-7700-2071-6)

 

One of Japan's foremost experts and polishers gives you not only an precise description of schools and workmanships but also a short historical and geographical overview of their development. A very good point to start from.

 

reinhard

My dear forumites,

 

You are going nerdy on this one (once more).

You hear "Tadahiro" (Oh, that must be a Hizen smith!)

You hear "Musashi" (There was something with Hizen and Musashi as well!)

The first Hizen master Tadayoshi acquired the title "Musashi Daijo".

The mei in question only states that this Tadahiro was a resident of Musashi.

 

Apart from the fact that the state of the blade is beyond serious judgement, you actually see a rather random assembly of objects.

Especially the tsuka looks like a very clumsy attempt of repairing something that is not worth the pain and shows no signs of Japanese craftsmanship.

 

What probably caught your particular attention is the surrender tag.

What makes you think, this surrender tag has any connection to this blade?

I'd expect a surrender tag together with a GunTo-mounted sword.

During WWII Japanese officers weren't allowed to bring just any wild assembly of koshirae to service.

 

reinhard

 

 

 

 

 

 

11 hours ago, Brian said:

I wonder if the papers belong to that sword.

 

At least not to the blade described on the sayagaki

 

reinhard

3 hours ago, Rivkin said:

At one time they have a blade that everyone around tells them is Ichimonji, they submit it and get "Bungo".

Well, "everyone around" does not necessarily include knowledge.

Especially not when confusing "Ichimonji" with "Bungo".

BTW "Bungo" what?

Ko-Bungo Yukihira, Sadahide, or Bungo Takada school?

None of them can be seriously confused with Ichimonji.

 

reinhard

 

On 11/16/2022 at 6:29 PM, Gakusee said:

If someone analyses the published swords in the Zufu which passed in the unfortunate shinsa that disappointed someone, that someone then can probably deduce why his / her sword failed: it could be that his failed Hizento just was 5cm shorter than the ones that passed, or his failed Kagemitsu was gakumei but the one that passed was ubu and zaimei, or  that there were too many submitted Bizento and they have their statistical distribution to adhere to (and hence have to pass some Yamato, some Shinto, some Gendaito) which obliterates his otherwise top-notch Yosozaemon Sukesada, etc etc.

Sometimes, we feel deprived and cheated but that is how it is. If we do not like it, we can always choose not to submit. But if you play the game, it helps to have an understanding of how it works. 

 

 

Thank you, Michael,

 

This is exactly what the NBTHK shinsa is all about.

The NBTHK might not be infallible in every case, but in general they are doing pretty well.

Of course there are some dealers whining about the "good old days" when they were able to tell their customers whatever they wanted to hear, uncontradicted.

I see some of them here too, on NMB, eagerly trying to undermine NBTHKs's credibility for a simple reason.

They are just not good enough for this kind of trade.

 

reinhard

 

Hi Tony,

 

In this case the answer is particularly simple.

The mei is on the sashi omote, i.e. the blade is signed as a katana.

Famous Kagemitsu in Osafune never did that.

His DaiTo are always signed as tachi, i.e. on the haki omote.

 

There were many minor smiths signing "Kagemitsu" during later periods though.

The torokusho wrapped around the saya does not give detailed information, for it doesn't have to.

It is just a paper legalizing the ownership as long as the blade is in Japan.

It should never have left Japan.

 

reinhard

 

 

 

 

On 11/15/2022 at 3:14 AM, Rivkin said:

The only way to believe they don't have masame is to employ an old trick - its nagare, kinsuji or chikei when its the first class school.

It seems to me that you have a limited understanding of the term "masame".

Masame is clearly defined as undisturbed layers of steel as in the work of  Yamato Hosho, Sendai Kunikane and some ShinShinTo smith emulating the style. Hada with a tendency to straightness is called "masake" or masa-gokoro.

On 11/15/2022 at 3:14 AM, Rivkin said:

Shintogo has ayasugi-masame going through the entire blade, that's kinsuji.

This is utter nonsense.

 

On 11/15/2022 at 3:14 AM, Rivkin said:

One also will need to call Hasebe "Yamashiro", since masame is his kantei trait,

 

No, it's not,

Straight, or masame-like structures appear only near the ha or the mune.

On 11/15/2022 at 3:14 AM, Rivkin said:

 

Quite honestly a lot of work. I much rather just call it masame if its long and straight.

You've got a long way to go.

On 11/15/2022 at 3:14 AM, Rivkin said:

 

 

On 11/16/2022 at 5:08 PM, Rivkin said:

I just got papered Kamakura ko dachi (NBTHK) and thought the school attribution seemed weird (atypical hamon, borderline atypical boshi). One of the alternative shinsa gave it late Muromachi Kaga.

 

Hi Kirill.

Are you refering to Kamakura as place or a time-period?

Whatever you are refering to:

Could you please explain what "atypical hamon" and "atypical boshi" mean in this particular case?

Help us understand with pictures and precise informations of the blade.

Thank you

 

reinhard

 

"I thought I would make a new thread for the subject for not to derail that one from it's original topic."

 

You really thought this was going to work as simple as that?

Signed Yamato blades > Shizu > Tametsugu > Soshu style in no time.

Wake up, Yussi, this is NMB!

 

reinhard

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Barry,

 

The mei eventually reads: MORI ( 守 ) SADA saku.

 

There was a Bungo Takada Katana with a similar mei in the Compton collection.

It was papered "koshu tokubetsu kicho token" in 1975, so the mei can be considered genuine.

It was sold at auction by Christies as lot Nr.306 (Part I) on March 31, 1992.

The two mei are not precisely identical, but pretty close.

 

I'm with you.

Brian, I really do appreciate your efforts to keep this site alive.

I'm just wondering if this is going to work in a long run by celebrating links to unchecked information.

I'm aware of growing popularity of "youtube-learning" in these days, but this is not how you should approach Japanese swords and fittings. A few of these links might be guidances to better understanding, but finally you have to see objects yourself, have to understand basics. What I wanted to make sure is: Do not confuse easy entertainment and breaking news for a way to understand the real thing. It will not work.

 

Anyway, I'm watching your project from a distance and wish you well. I really do.

 

best regards - reinhard

Do you really think approaching Japanese culture is possible by sitting at home and studying bits and bytes and pixels?

 

Reinhard please explain?

 

Greg

 

Really?

Is that all it takes?

Feeding you with links to unchecked information?

"Nuns, no sense of humour!" (Clancy Brown as Kurgan in "Highlander")

 

reinhard

Just checking how predictable NMB still is. Thank you mods.

I could have chosen this pic as well. No bare bottom, but the message's still the same. Sorry for the confusion, Joey.

 

reinhard

 

P.S. Great source for pics and wallpapers:

 

http://www.fotomonitor.ru

Joey,

 

You are trying a silly stunt. Don't. Keep on learning. Buy later.

 

reinhard

seems Guido has seen a lot of Masamune but can't answer some simple questions.

 

Simple questions can be answered. Stupid questions can't.

 

reinhard

I would consider Masamune's style outlandish, rugged, bold

 

How many of Masamune's famous blades did you see in hand?

 

Let me guess. None?

 

Well, I did. Quite a few of them. They are neither "outlandish" nor "rugged" or just "bold". They are simply the best a lover of NihonTo can imagine.

 

Reinhard

Leave your armchairs and check reality.

 

reinhard