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No feedback at all. If your blade already is in Japan for Polish anyway and if you can afford it, then submit it (shipping over just for Juyo shinsa is something I personally wouldn't consider). Not much additional hassle, just submission fee and time needed, but at least no extra shipping. At worst it failed, at best it gets papers.

Not educated enough to add to the topic, but just to mention general thoughts: if you show the blade in here first and have it discussed (documented for everyone to be read in a public forum too), if the blade then fails, do you want your blade somewhat "documented to have failed Juyo"? Remember that according to our Western standards for some this would mean that the blade isn't good enough and maybe with that knowledge will value the blade at less than what it deserves. If you are 100% certain you'll be keeping the blade anyway (and that this will not change, even if it fails - you may be disappointed of it afterwards and have a hard time to look at it again) and you'd just be keen to know, then I do see less risk with that. Also, think about what you would do if it does fail. Would you want it to stay in Japan for it to be submitted to Juyo again and again? At least there sometimes were claims that submitting an item a few times may result it somewhen to possibly achieve Juyo, but also no warranty with that. Or do you really want it back immediately afterwards? The fact that your thread initially started with a different blade and you then bring up another blade that you may consider submitting may make it appear as if your wish is mainly to have submitted one blade and for it to pass Juyo, to kind of "have this experience". Is this what you want? Also, why would you want to send it over for Juyo? Because you think it is the best for the blade and that the blade is really something very special that should be documented as Juyo? It is easier if a blade already is in Japan, not much to be lost. If you ship it over for Juyo shinsa, then there is more work, time and money involved, with absolutely no guarantee that it will achieve of why you are doing this.

Fully agree with you that it is just the greedy sellers and the market manipulation with these certificates of knowledgeable people. I can sell you a rare Leonardo Da Vinci painting of a duck for just one million pounds. It clearly states Leonardo on bottom left. However, I do not have any certificates because of the greedy sellers and therefore it is much cheaper than usual. Do we have a deal? Or do you prefer to get someone elses opinion on it? Everyone is up to do with his money as he wants to. If you feel confident enough and trust yourself more than someone elses expertise, then do get the stuff without paperwork.

Bringing this thread up again because ... I saw that sword up again for auction. Now the estimate reads as 18-22,000 USD, with a starting bid of 13,000 USD --> https://live.amoskeagauction.com/lot-details/index/catalog/131/lot/97417/Exceptional-Japanese-Mid-19th-Century-Katana-By-Masazane-with-NBTHK-Certificate And to get back to the original auction listing. If I open up the listing for the same sword from the initial auction which was when this thread had been posted, it display the particular blade as unsold. I therefore do not know as to why you claim it to have been sold at 36k. --> https://live.amoskeagauction.com/lot-details/index/catalog/122/lot/85981/Exceptional-Japanese-Mid-19th-Century-Katana-by-Masazane-with-NBTHK-Certificate

I highly doubt they know on how to take them apart .. Well, maybe someone from Australia can help them with description and taking apart plus identification?

While surfing a firearms auction - my main interest - I noticed that starting with lot 165 until lot 177 there are a little bit more than 20 blades in this auction. Maybe of interest to some that otherwise would not search there. I can't tell much about the auction company since I have not dealt with them in the past, nor do I know anyone there (for being from the other side of the world). https://auctions.militarylane.com.au/#!/auctions/d7c99452-dfd4-4454-a76a-8ea06e1f9ebf?ic=90&page=2

That is fully correct and I bet you are right. Jacques, I do believe you have a great knowledge and are a benefit to this forum for participating. It is only sometimes for the wording that you are using that some of them appear snotty, as well as that it seems if you have made up your mind, there is about zero to change that. For ones like me who has - compared to you - only little knowledge it would be worth much more if you would put down your full arguments and explain with more words as why you think what. That would possibly save some pages in this thread too. So no offenses from my side, just the wish to be able to learn from you in an easier way.

Reading the posts of Jacques in here reminds me quite a lot to a thread of mine, where he was very serious about naming the blade gimei a few timesand pointing out minimal mei differences he claimed ... Well, NBTHK papered it with TH . So don't take his posts too serious if others give it chances, just go and find out if it papers.

Just a very side comment: when comparing against "2 million registered Japanese swords" against J and TJ, keep in mind that not all persons have the money, ambition nor wish to submit blades for shinsa, to NBTHK, etc.. There will be blades that would achieve J, but are not submitted for J - for whichever reason. It is a tad of unrelated to put these numbers in comparison.

Just a very side comment: when comparing against "2 million registered Japanese swords", keep in mind that not all persons have the money, ambition nor wish to submit blades for Juyo shinsa. There will be blades that would achieve Juyo, but are not submitted for Juyo - for whichever reason.

Are you sure this person is Mukansa? Markus Sesko has the following names on his list: Source: https://markussesko.com/2018/08/11/mukansa-ningen-kokuho-list/

As written above, for what I've been told it is supposed to be put up for exhibit starting 23rd May 2025, so this Friday. I'd assume you are closer to the Museum, so up to you to post pictures of how it is displayed . Or anyone else, if another forum member makes it there! Happy if you have liked it, was fun to be there, getting educated on not to lick on Tsuba and stuff ... . That room where we had the meeting was fantastic, if not overwhelming. The museum itself is a class of its own. That was a great trip to Berlin.

I'm leaving for Berlin tormorrow to bring the blade to the NBTHK-EB meeting on Saturday. For the non NBHTK-EB members and those that can't make it to the meeting, there is a written (borrowing) agreement that my blade will at the Samurai Museum Berlin. It is planned to be put up on display starting 23rd May 2025, and approximately one year. Hope that this will allow fellow members to get to look at it in person. And keen to hear what you mayever think of it, if you manage to see it, either at Museum or at Saturday's NBTHK-EB meeting!

Sorry for OT: yes, I'll bring it with me next week to the meeting. You'll get to see it (and me ) in person.

Oh yeah! Best will be standing in the rear and seeing people getting excited on the blade, while feeling dumb for not being able to see what they see . I will mention it in its own blade thread after the meeting (and hope I'm not announcing any secrets), but the Kiyomaro (Masayuki, to be precise) is afterwards borrowed to the Samurai Museum Berlin, where it will be put up for a special exhibition to allow even those not participating in the NBHTK-EB meeting to get to see the blade in person.

Thanks for sharing these pictures! Looking through the catalogues of the exhibition it was my understanding that there were two "sessions" of this exhibit, the first lasting from 8th March to 13th April, then 15th April to 11th May -> https://www.touken.or.jp/english/#exhibition What I didn't fully gather, item #52 from that 1st session/first catalogue was described as Kiyomaro Daisho too, but they didn't list the signatures separately for the Wakizashi and the Katana, as they did with the Daisho that you have pictured above (item #45)?

It was exactly my question, what does NBTHK require to paper two blades - without koshirae - as Daisho. It does seem to be very tough, but as the post of Darcy you mention as well as some links have showed, this seems to be possible. To what I was able to gather, the most important thing is that BOTH blades are documented together in the NBTHK certificate, whichever level it may be. Just by browsing around on some dealer sites I found another daisho with both blades on the NBTHK certificate, in that case from Naotane: Antique Daisho signed by Naotane for sale | Samurai Museum Shop

What is needed that NBTHK papers blades (without koshirae) as daisho? Maybe that would be a classification to relate to.

I‘d highly appreciate the translation of this Mei, and if there is anything to be known about the particular smith, then this additional information would be highly appreciated too. Thanks!

Re Saturday: great to have had the chance to also see faces behind nicknames, despite I sometimes felt misplaced among so many knowledgeable people.

Yeah, Ian was already at my home filming stuff from my collection in the past, I know him well. If there is any chance to make it to your museum I‘ll PM you and maybe we can also meet in person!

Just a very wild hint, are you aware that the royal house of Salm-Reifferscheidt, having their home in Schloss Steyregg, just north of the Danube, close to Linz, and therefore about two hours drive from Blatná, have had a Japanese ancestor? Aoki Shūzō started studying at Berlin University back in 1869 and later was Japanese Foreign Minister and was the great-grandfather of the current head of the family. They still have a few items from him in their castle, but of course some stuff disappeared over the decades too. Some links on this (sorry, they are German, you can try Google Translator): https://oag.jp/event...m-privaten-nachlass/ https://www.nachrich...2-Jahren;art4,575690 https://oag.jp/event...1844-1914-im-profil/ It may also have been a potential connection. One would need to research if any of the Salm-Reifferscheidt family has had a Naval function in WWI to see if this theory makes sense. PS: I love your museums website, especially all the very cool and rare weapons (for me: especially firearms) you have displayed there! Thanks for doing this stuff, despite I can't speak Czech! I hope to one day make it there and get to see at least some of them in person.

Bringing it up a last time - hope to see all NBTHK Europe members from this forum in Manching (in Germany) in exactly one week, next Saturday. I'll bring this Masayuki along so that all of you can inspect it in person. Highly looking forward to it!

If there is anything needed to be done in place, then let me know. This is approximately 1.5 hours drive from my home and I go there from time to time anyway. Could check if still there and try to take some pictures. Edit: dug out the old newspaper article on them .. basically it seems they are property of Anton Petermandl, meaning this person seemingly inherited the collection. It is claimed they are all from the estate of medical doctor Albrecht von Loretz, who lived from 1847 to 1884, and had worked in Japan and brought these blades from Japan to Steyr. If this person then handed them over to the museum, idk. I'd assume they did about zero with these blades since 1884, so they indeed have handling issues and maybe are out of polish. If this adds to the provenance .. idk. Judge yourself. https://www.nachrichten.at/oberoesterreich/weihnachten/Schwerter-der-Samurais-zum-Advent;art115283,1244441

Thank you! Spoke with Markus on this signature too, he mentioned that at best the second name was 9 years old when this was a collaboration work, so bit unusual and maybe to help the younger of the two? Unfortunately I only pictured the Mei when I saw this blade at a friends place, so cannot provide additional pictures. Edit, to make it clear: he said the two smiths are Yokoyama Kōzuke Daijō Fujiwara Sukesada (1633–1721) and Genpachirō Sukesada (1712–1743).