Jussi Ekholm

Well, I was going to add "maybe" in front of that line. And I know something about hada yet I confess that it's usually way beyond my skill to do any attributions by hada. And I understand koto does not in any way equal coarse hada, there are really fine hada in koto blades too. However I remember reading on several places that sometimes more coarse hada was seen in Muromachi era blades, and Shinto blades tending to have tighter hada. Although it might (and most likely) have been just more usual within some schools than in general during that era. Maybe I'm mixing terms loose, coarse etc. together, and I do not yet understand perfectly the differences in steel itself, soft, hard etc. So period most likely wrong, but at least got the suriage correct. I'm always ready to learn and change my opinions to more correct ones

Saw this on SFI yesterday, and well I might try to give some beginners points as the experienced members haven't yet shared their thoughts on the possible era. These are just novice thoughts and as I'm at my parents, unfortunately I don't have access to my sword books or bookmarks... My initial thought was/is that this is a suriage late Muromachi blade (this might be way off though...). I think the sword is bit too slender to be an early Edo blade. Also this seems to have shallow sori (it might be just my eyes), but as I think this is suriage with lower ana being the original one, that would slightly increase sori and together with slenderness that wouldn't fit my stereotypic view of Kanbun Shinto or later Edo blade (of course there are variations but I tend to have my own mental image). Also like Hoahn and yourself noted the coarse hada would be one point that I too as a novice would classify as koto feature. Can't see hamon really well but could it be suguha based midare? I would like to hear more experienced thoughts too, and see if even a part of the above was right...

Just placed my order as Bod.de had Finland as available shipping country I just couldn't resist the urge , like Brian said from what I've seen in the german edition this book is a must-have. Thank you Markus for all the effort on this book.

I don't have enough skill or references to judge the mei. Here is the info on Seki Kanemichi (KAN 1394) from Fujishiro, Kanemichi Seki (Eiroku 1558 Mino) Sue-koto, Chujo-saku. He is of the late Seki Ha, and is said to be the grandson on Shizu Saburo Kaneuji of the ninth generation. He is the father of Iga no Kami Kanemichi (Kinmichi), Yoshimichi, Masatoshi nado. According to one story, he is said to have been appointed in Eiroku 12 to the position of Mutsu no Kami, granted the use of one character "Dai" (or "O") and changed to "Omichi" ("Daido"). Works are the style of late Seki. Here are two links to information on Mishina school: http://www.samuraisword.com/articles/mishina_school.htm, http://www.nihontocraft.com/Mishina.html Seems to be there might have been 2 different Kanemichi working in Eiroku period in Seki area. One theory suggests that KAN 1394 and KAN 1395 were the same smith, and another theory that there were 2 different smiths.

Well as a real novice in this area I agree it's great fun and the excitement of doing it is much bigger than crossword puzzles, well someone who favors crosswords might not agree with me on that. And I use pretty much same methods as Veli described there, although I'm limited in oshigata references. The method of doing translations for me is having 3-4 books on hand, maybe 2-3 tabs with kanji open, plus search tabs. Then it just takes time, and for a novice like me it really takes a long time. I still usually get only parts of translations correct, and it's really delightful when you happen to get most, or sometimes the whole mei correct. One good trick I do sometimes is go on to some shops site, click few nakagos open on tabs quickly trying not to look descriptions of the item, do something else for a while, then start trying to translate them. The reason I open few at the time is that I can get stuck on some kanji, when I hit that point, I can do the other translation on the meanwhile, and then return for those that I couldn't get. Sometimes a break like this will help, sometimes it doesn't. You may get lots of errors in the beginning, I know I do. Some kanji look very much alike for us novices. Sometimes I use another kanji I know fairly surely I've gotten correct in trying to solve the above or below one. However, there are times the translation I thought was incorrect is actually correct, and the one I thought to be correct is the incorrect one, so I ended up choosing the wrong one... Good luck with translations mate!

Thanks for the insight, after reading my opening post again parts of it did sound more stupid that I originally intended. The main thing is I've eyed some auction catalogs and saw some great deals. And even with the added fees they would still be good prices. So I have nothing against the auctions or auction houses, just the fact that the Buyers Fee put me little off guard as I hadn't heard of it before (thought the hammer price=price you pay). I thought the profit to auction houses came from commissions. I guess within time you'll develop sense by conciously adding one quarter to the prices without even thinking. To be honest I'm very intrested about auctions, well otherwise I wouldn't have brought the subject up in the first place (although I agree, I should have written it in different tone). I've seen plenty of great auctions take place in London, and for me it is within a travelling distance. One part that really intrests me is the seeing of the items, and like Henk-Jan wrote, just seeing people bid on high quality items and trying to guess at which price something will go, and seeing how far off my own guesses will be. Will you be able to get a chance too see the items day before the auction or so, as I believe it works like this? Like I said in opening I have no knowledge regarding auctions, and I would like to learn much of them. What is "clearing the room" or what happens if nobody bids on an item? As some lots seem to have large amounts of weaponry it would be perfect addition to museums and dealers to get to see items in auction house too in one trip. Just trying to maximize my chances to see intresting items if I'd travel abroad.

Well I've just recently started looking some auction houses around the world and what they have to offer. As a student my budget is limited and I already have my mind on what my next purchase will be, however I saw one piece that caught my intrest a bit. I was pondering if it would go for the lower end of the estimate it might be a good deal, I was planning to ask more information and hopefully more pictures from their specialist, until it hit me... Buyers Premium 25% will be added to hammer prices. Now I started to reasearch info on auction houses and their extra fees, and learned about this so called Buyers Premium that every auction house seems to have, and some had other fees too. Needless to say that I won't be buying any swords from auction houses at least for several years. I spun some numbers around and from European auctions I would have to pay c.30% on top of the hammer price and outside EU c.40%. I've read that auctions of these big auction houses seem to be get together places for the elite, and after finding out about the Buyers Fee + other possible fees, I understood why they mainly intrest the upper class. Well my intrest in the subject is purely on nihonto but don't know if this will be more suitable discussion for Izakaya. I would like to hear what members here think of the auction houses in the current state (very high buyers fees) and if it's you have been able to get a good deal sometimes? Well this will of course be purely subjective matter, but I just thought I could write a post about the big buyers fees in case some novice collector like myself might not know how it goes.

I believe this is his website: http://www.takonomakurarestorations.com/ Now I may be just a novice but I wouldn't give him a sword for his 115$ per inch polishing work. Some of the work examples on his site seem to be of lesser quality. Here is one small part of his bio: A consumate perfectionist, Eric's attention to even the smallest details, has earned him the reputation as one of the finest sword restoration artist outside of Japan..., his bio does not say a word about his training. Sorry to hear about your bad experience.

Novices like myself learn a great deal from arguments like these, so thank you to both sides. I have only questions to add to this thread. How about tachi tsuba? As this was only slightly touched in page 2, sorry to bring this up again but tachi koshirae are my favorite and I would like to know more about them. Or are these usually bit too rare to draw any good conclusions (I fear it may be so)? Some of them seem to be very plain to novice eye, unfortunately I cannot say for sure the material in most cases. As the one example from 1200 is just listed to have copper fittings, to my understanding this means all metal parts of koshirae are of copper?

This has been good thread, as a novice who is currently mostly intrested in tachi I've found this a good read. This particular comment explains a lot to me, thank you Guido. As for the use of word funbari outside nihonto collectors. Well being a young collector I first used to collect modern production swords. I guess the word funbari is somewhat popular amongst production sword collectors nowdays. It used to be yokote a few years back. Like Ted explained in his post many (I would dare to say most) of the average sword collectors understand the funbari as difference between motohaba and sakihaba. Unfortunately I have not yet been fortunate enough to see in real life a sword with funbari, and it is first somewhat hard to try to get it from pictures and written descriptions. However the more you keep looking and as your knowledge grows you will slowly start to understand it better even from pics and descriptions alone. One good book to look at old koto tachi is Sano Catalogue - An Early Style of a Japanese Sword. Defining differences between tachi and koto katana is very hard for a novice like me. In that above book there are examples of koto katana that based on their characteristics I would think of tachi (well these have katana-mei in book but if they were mumei...).

Great project and big applauds. I read your 2 german preview pages and this seems to be almost perfect reference in my mind. For a novice like me Hawleys leaves a big question mark as I can find the smith but no further information. In your preview pages the biographical information was really good and just what I and probably many others too need. I wish all the best for the project and hopefully I will be able to get a copy of this!

Finally I have Internet as I'm visiting my parents... (being limited for net usage by phone is starting to get bit frustrating) Good points have arisen in this thread. I usually invite only close friends and familymembers into my home. As I tend to be of cautious type, plus I don't like half strangers hanging in my home. Well few days ago serviceman came to visit my home (as I've just moved into new apartment). Of course the first thing he laid his eyes on was my sword stand, starting to ask questions about my collection. Well I am a nice guy so I answered to some of his questions and luckily it was a quick visit only. I can just picture him telling his mates about weird swordcolleting young bloke who has moved into that x apartment... (yep maybe bit too paranoid) As my last apartment was on the ground floor I had to keep the curtains closed all the time. Slightly bad neighbourhood and sometimes shady people just "hanging" outside peoples windows. Ken that PDF is really good idea. I've been doing somewhat similar Word-document for each piece.

Guess that is what I feared for when I started to thinking it was going too smoothly in the insurance company. And the fact that they refused to take my pictures and documentation got me bit worried. It's a good thing that I'm a slight hoarder and I still have all of my receipts from sword/sword related purchases saved for all the items I currently have. Of course it would be a battle if the item was truely worth the amount I paid for it in insurance companies point of view. That deposit box idea is good one. As I have all things stored in my harddrive I'll back up my documentation and pictures and store them in my parents house too, might even want to scan those receipts too. The professional appraisals would be tricky one to get, since there is only 1 antique shop in Finland that deals some nihonto. And I don't even have any papered pieces so I think in my opinion the values might be much too low (I tend to have sentimental attachment to things I own). And I don't even know if his word would be enough proof to insurance company. I don't know about the receipts of foreign sword dealers/collectors but they might count for some proof. I tend to be overly cautious, and I believe that fire is my worst fear. Since it could start from another apartment and burn down the whole building. Or then there could be damage to waterpipes that could cause flooding. Now that I'm moving into better neighbourhood the likelyness of theft is much decreased. As I only have a beginners collection at the moment, it's not that big worry now. But after many more years of collecting and improving my collection, it might start to be a real worry. That additional coverage for "house contents" was the first that was offered here in Finland too. But as a poor student my house contents aren't of much value and I wanted more to have a seperate policy. Very sorry to hear about that disaster Ken.

Well as I was fortunate enough to get a brand new rental apartment after living over 4 years in moldy rathole, I had to change my insurances as I move to new apartment. At the same time I thought I should take an insurance to my sword collection (aside from normal household insurance). Well I was surprised how easy and cheap it was. As my collection is still fairly small I took a little space for future purchases in the insurance too. Now I know that Finland has very good insurance policies but still I was surprised at the low cost. For 25€ per year my swords are protected against thefts, fire and water damage. Well the two latter are not probable as the building is new, and the theft is very unlikely as I live in better neighbourhood now and on the 6th floor. But in case something horrible will happen 25€'s is really bargain deal. The funny thing is that they didn't ask for any appraisals or information of my pieces. I did suggest that I could send photos and details of all the pieces but that wasn't necessary. We decided together that I would write down a list of the items and send it to them. Now I understand that insuring swords in Finland is very rare and the companies do not have any instructions to a situation like this one. So I guess my own appraisals are enough proof for them. I would like to know if you have your collection insured. It would also be nice to have little chat about insurance policies in different countries and if it's easy or hard to insure swords and antique items. Since I couldn't found much insurance talk on the forums I decided to make this thread.

Well I might not be really qualified to answer since I'm just in the process of buying my first nihonto in koshirae but I have always preferred option A. Sure some new and shiny examples look absolutely stunning but I just love the look of old and worn tsukamaki. Somehow that is how I prefer and maybe with more age and experience my opinion will change but currently I would wait until it has to be replaced.

Saw this on SFI and spent some time trying to get the translation, then realized it was in here too. Some of those characters gave me really hard time. I got Sukegawa Sadamitsu, I'm not totally sure about that beginning since it gave me a small headache.

Yep that Bonham site example does not somehow appeal to my eye. If you compare the Bonham vs. Sanmei example horimono-wise since they are supposedly made by the same smith, to my eye there seems to be a huge difference in quality. Almost everything on that Bonham site sword is less "crisp". Tried to search some more examples of 2nd and 3rd generation but failed. That Christies auction piece was Hozon by 1st gen but I can't open the picture. In Mr. Nagayamas book Musashi Taro Yasukuni was listed as one of the leading swordsmiths of mid-Edo. Description from the same book: This smith is believed to have belonged the Shitahara school as a student of Omura Kaboku. Shinto tokuden tradition and Mino tradition: Blades have shallow sori, thick kasane and slightly tapering mihaba. The jigane is hard and the jihada is a little coarse. The hamon is o-notare, notare midare, o-gunome midare with scarce nie. The hamon is wide in the kissaki, ichimai boshi are seen. Now to my uneducated eye that Sanmei example has many of these features 8,8mm kasane, quite shallow sori and slight taper. Now for me details are the hard part but I believe that boshi is ichimai as it turns into ko-shinogi. Sorry for derailing this a bit but I believe some of this information might come in handy.

It's Iorimune. The rounding of mune is worst near the nakago, it gets sharper when you move 20cm up. Well I guess the best choice might be just leaving this as it is now. My original thought went pretty much along those lines since in my head I knew there wont be a cheap miracle cure but just had to ask to be sure. The sword can still be enjoyed a bit just need to play around with light sources and angles. Thanks for all the tips guys.

Well guess I need to learn to use my eyes and wits more too I thought that the Geraint meant clearer image of mei... I stand totally corrected, not gimei is my thought now that I know the correct translation. That Jyu Go that was correctly in the end just made me instantly count for a date. I guess the next question will be which generation Musashi Taro Yasukuni made the sword? Now I do believe that Musashi Taro means, Taro (honorary title) of Musashi province? And it seems that the title goes from one generation to another? Reading from Sanmei about Munekuni and, He learned the true 15 fold technique with his younger brother Musashi Taro YASUKUNI from their master Omura Kaboku who had served exclusively for Echigo Matsudaira clan and then in his later period served for a Tokugawa Mitsukuni as a medical doctor So there is only 1 Musashi Taro Yasukuni who studied under Omura Kaboku and uses the 15 fold technique, the 1st gen Yasukuni but he of course would have taught the skill to another generation, so therefore all three use the same signature and 15 fold technique? Hawley's lists 4 Musashi Taro Yasukunis (so 3 generations excluding the one much later) 1st 1688-1730 2nd 1736 3rd 1736-81 4th 1848 (Musashi Taro Minamoto Yasukuni) The Sanmai example was by 1st gen Musashi Taro Yasukuni. There was one wakizashi by 1st gen Musashi Taro Yasukuni sold by Christies By 1st gen Musashi Taro Yasukuni http://www.bonhams.com/eur/auction/20090/lot/8917/# Here is one sword by 2nd Musashi Taro Yasukuni. http://www.kanetoyo.com/sell-wakizashi-7.html Couldn't see much difference in signature by my eye (maybe few letters look bit different) but year and the fact that it read in description gave it out. Here is another Musashi Taro (Yasukuni), I trust NBTHK papers and Aoi-art, since I can't read the last one. He worked in Kyoho-period 1716-1736 but the signature is different from 1st and 2nd generations. http://www.aoi-art.com/sword/wakizashi/11121-2.jpg And now one question, which may be stupid. Since every Musashi Taro Yasukuni belonged in Omura style (wouldn't they have followed in tradition?) would they have made blades with pretty similar characteristics? This is the wonderful world of nihonto, I can spend countless hours searching for information and no matter how much I think, I can't get any further. On the contrary just feel more stupid than in the beginning, so much new information learned today. The good thing about forums is that there is always someone with more knowledge who comes to save the say.

I believe you mean a pic like this one? Had phone and sword next to me so it was a quick shot. http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/6972 ... 201919.jpg

Yes it's of course impossible to say if it's gimei or real based on just the mei of the sword (at least at my level). The reason was I suspected gimei was my mistranslation of the other side (I firstly read it as a date, and thought they were made at the same time, therefore I thought the mei was just copied from an old(er) sword). Like I said on my another post this is why I have usually waited until someone else chimes in, so I know it will be gotten correctly. It might have been a wrong call and I understand that, and I apologize for that misjudgement, I was little too hasty there (you know young & restless). That's why it's nice to have more knowledgeable people around who guide in the correct way. I do inteded to ask more photos of blade in my original post but I was a bit hyped when I got the partial translation correct, and of course forgot to type it in. Since this Yasukuni who has the title has made the blade, I believe it could be a great sword. Since he was in high position and highly appreciated swordsmith. Now as my Japanese is very very limited and one of my great kanji resources Mr. Steins site is temporarily down, I can't seem to get rest of the translation correctly. I suppose the 2nd last kanji is aki (meaning autumn?) last kanji is tsukuru (combined made in autumn?), that's about what I got earlier. I read the beginning first Hoei Jyu Go (which combined with the end made me think of a date), while now I tend to think it starts with Nao. I'll be waiting almost as excited as mnrivrat48 more information about the sword and translation.

Maybe I'll give up that hazuya idea, that's just something stupid that popped into my head while pondering possible solutions. Guess nobody thought highly of this blade since it doesn't have a habaki... Just a joke but the sword indeed doesn't have a habaki. The sword had only crude tsuka and saya that one previous owner made for easier keeping of the sword. The condition was the reason I got it so cheap from the seller on another forum, and I wanted it so I could start learning with actual hands on experience. At least years have brought some wisdom as I've mostly just gotten books since then. Well I should say now that if I'd have this polished, I'd have to get habaki and shirasaya too. Although I'd love to commission that kind of project one day, project like that would cost around 4 to 6 times as much as this sword (like I said I got a really good deal for my first introduction piece). And I do not want to make that kind of investment to this sword, as a student saving up for nihonto is not an easy job and currently I have my eye on a certain Nambokucho katana but for sure it'll be gone before I have money for it... Took me many tries as I'm not skilled as photographer but I managed to pull off a decent picture of my biggest concern with this sword. As the nick in kissaki is 1mm in depth, there is only 1mm of boshi left behind it. And as the boshi is only about 2mm wide throughout the kissaki to my understanding that makes the restoration almost impossible. http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/8595/2 ... 180509.jpg (I have a super macro pic too but this one showed boshi better eventhough it's bit blurry overall) Thanks for the tips so far. Well booking a flight to somewhere in Europe and meeting up with a polisher would be so great. Meeting professional craftsmen is always so enlightening. Saving for a trip to Japan has been a work in progress for me, the bad thing about travelling is that it eats your sword budget. So it's either a trip to Japan or a nihonto... Well I know at least 1 togishi lives in London, Ryanair flight to Stansted and few days stay at the city, hitting some museums and bit of walking around town and shopping on the side doesn't sound too bad. And it wouldn't make a huge gap into my tight budget either.

It's only mumei. And even for me this one ain't worth the money that would go on polishing this (eventhough this was my first piece), I'd rather save that money for a finer nihonto. Well I've been reading a lot of polishing information lately. Maybe the sword could take another polish if you'd start it above hamachi if it werent for that kissaki nick... The boshi is just too weak to handle another polish, although it wont show in that 3rd picture I put up it's so thin in the whole kissaki that if one were to even out that nick it would leave an unhardened kissaki. And even though there would be enough boshi left, redoing kissaki is a major job and would cost plenty. And even though those nicks on monouchi seem small, there really aint too much hamon behind them either, like I said in opening post this has been polished almost to the end. Plus the current postal rates in Finland are pure murder, shipping this out of country will cost too much for the value of the sword (this is darn hard country for sword collectors sometimes). And I do not know any professional polishers in Scandinavia so the closest shipping country would be Germany. Just trying to figure out a possible quick fix that I can maybe do within Finland. If nothing almost purely cosmetic can be done, then I'll just try to enjoy this sword as it is now. Here are the pics of the nakago: (the flash lightened up the nakago on 2nd pic, both sides are same color in real life) http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/564/20120118164455.jpg http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/5553/20120118163351.jpg

I was trying to translate this and had gotten Mu Shi/Shiro? Tarou Yasukuni, now my translation work is always slow and I tend to search references to see if I'm on the right track. Usually can't find them until I've gotten whole mei translated but this time I got an early hit. I say gimei since I found the identical mei on Houei-period NBTHK Tokubetsu Hozon. Musashi Tarou Yasukuni, haven't even started to translate the otherside but as you can see it's perfectly same as in this Tokubetsu Hozon. http://www.sanmei.com/contents/media/T3 ... PUP_E.html I was really puzzled with that Tarou but english translation of Tokugawa-art site gives Musashi Tarou out as a title that was achieved by this smith. As a beginner I get a huge feeling of success when I manage to nail the correct reading...

Haven't been really active in this forum, mostly just lurking in the shadows and sucking up information. As I'm beginner and young collector, most of the times I've thought it's better just wait for answers from people with more knowledge. Now that I've gotten little more knowledge during the years, I'll be opening my mouth bit more in future too. Needless to say how valuable resource this forum has been during the years for me. I have this very tired sword that is in really bad shape, it's actually my first nihonto (only sentimental value, since its condition is horrible) and I've had it about 5-6 years now. I already know that it's beyond real polish, the hamachi is only about 0,5mm and the last real polish it had was already started about 1cm away from hamachi. There is really nasty nick on the kissaki, while it doesn't break the boshi now repairing it is impossible since the boshi is already at maximum thinness in the current state. Any kissaki work would destroy it cause there is not enough to do anything. Unfortunately some previous owner was little too eager trying to "polish" the blade... So the blade is pretty much living it's last days now. The amount of pitted rust would have not been half as bad as the scratches that it has now too. Now as bit older and wiser I wouldn't get this one in the first place but at 17-18 for bargain price, I just had to have this. Well onto my question then, is it possible to bring out the hamon a bit more by using only hazuya? I know that this is next to impossible question to ask with few pictures only and not the sword in hand but any bit of information would be helpful to me. I don't dare to touch the blade myself since I don't have necessary skill but I might let one finnish amateur polisher give it a try with hazuya (if he currently has any). I'm just asking here first if it would be stupid move? I have been pondering this for a while now cause there is a nice hamon and you can see it clearly in proper lighting but it's really hard trying to enjoy the details in current condition. Any improvement to the current state of this wakizashi would be a bonus. Now I don't have much knowledge about polishing but with my current knowledge I'd say this sword cannot handle any of the real "shape changing" stones. That's why I thought hazuya would be only suitable choice for this sword that has already had more than it's fair shair of polishes. At some places the hamon is only 2mm wide + the hamachi and kissaki problems... Yet I do not know if only hazuya would be even close to enough to buff the hamon because the overall polish is messed up. Here are some pictures to provide little help regarding my question. You can see the hamon in first 2 pictures, and the 2nd and 3rd really show those horrible scratches and 3rd shows the bad nick on the kissaki. (those closeup-shots really make me feel sad for this sword...) http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/4938 ... 163820.jpg http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/8638 ... 164614.jpg http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/2889/2 ... 163938.jpg