chris covington

Mr. Trotter, I don't think I have been studying as long as Jacques but I have been studying budo for 27 years and koryu budo for 16 years so maybe my opinion will have some value (it is worth at least what you pay for it ). Seisui no ken is said to be a modern kata created from Itto-ryu. The only video I have seen of someone doing this kata is on a Dentokan website (a modern American form of aikijujutsu/aikido). It does not look like any school of Itto-ryu I am familliar with (bottom of the page: http://www.dentokanhombu.com/2.0/waza.htm). It is sometimes hard to pin down certain sayings to a single ryu (although not impossible). I looked it up on E-budo and someone mentioned it in a post over there. He believes it is an Itto-ryu saying which would match up with the Seisui no kata origin. I have a friend who is an Itto-ryu swordsman and I will ask him if he has heard of this. Best regards, Chris

I don't know much about the artist who made the koshirae but I have to say I really like it! At first glance I wasn't sure but the more I look at it the more I really like it! I'd love to see some higher quality photos if you can. Thank you for sharing Chris

Henk-Jan, I would agree that one should take a lot of budo history with a grain of salt. I have often heard historians and researchers face great problems when dealing with koryu. If someone from outside the ryu attempts to research it they will run into stumbling blocks because key information is withheld from outsiders. On the other hand when someone from inside the ryu attempts to research it they are presented much more information but the source is obviously colored by the ryu. Some information is a matter of faith as being part of a ryu. Like Shindo Muso-ryu founder Muso Gonnosuke beating Musashi in a duel, even though that story is only found in their own Shindo Muso-ryu records. I guess if we believed every story about a ryu we'd all be hanging out in the woods looking for tengu to teach us Jacques, As for Katori Shinto-ryu being the oldest koryu I have heard this many times. Nen-ryu was founded in 1368 20 years before Iizasa was born. If we take into account the kaden of a ryu Kashima Shinto-ryu might be even older than Katori Shinto-ryu or Nen-ryu. I can see in your signature though that you are a Katori Shinto-ryu swordsman. As above it is part of our faith as a member of a ryu to believe what we do about our own school. With that being said I still believe that Ogasawara sensei went to China to avoid the Tokugawa and when he returned he brought with him inner secrets that I continue to study to this day Your original quote was about only modern kendo using shinai and it said nothing of eras other than modern kendo (I am assuming you mean modern kendo from the Meiji era as we know it today?). I gave three examples of old koryu that implement shinai besides Yagyu Shinkage-ryu. If we look at Edo period ryu we will find even more. I think we have hijacked this thread a bit and turned it into a kenjutsu thread. Maybe we should continue our conversation somewhere else and give the thread back to the people who started it? Best regards, Chris

Hello Jacques et al., I don't have a dog in this race but I do think your quote about shinai is a little off. Many koryu (pre-modern kendo) used various types of shinai. The Kashima Shinden Jikishinkage-ryu has a whole set called To-no-kata (also read shinai no kata, we use a type of fukuro shinai). This set of kata was developed by the 4th headmaster Ogasawara Genshinsai (1574–1644) when he returned from Beijing in the early Edo period. He had angered Tokugawa Ieyasu and was to be killed. He fled to Beijing to keep his head. When Ieyasu died Ogasawara sensei came back home. Maniwa Nen-ryu, a school that is even older than Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto-ryu, adopted fukuro shinai into their practice. If memory serves I think Tatsumi-ryu uses fukuro shinai. Now of course there are different thoughts on the value to shinaigeiko vs katageiko (Nakanishi vs Terada, in Nakanishi's own dojo, for example) but that is an argument well beyond the scope of this forum and one that is about 400 years old at this point, so I doubt there will be any resolution anytime soon and certainly not here. Cheers, Chris

Stephen, Jigen-ryu! A very famous and powerful sword school from Satsuma. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBp8Dkk7vIs check out around 2:05 for their bokuto (tree branches). Best regards, Chris

I study an old and famous style of kendo called Kashima Shinden Jikishinkage-ryu. Our first set of kata called Hojo no kata uses a very thick bokuto. Our method of cutting is a bit different than most schools and it generates a great deal of force so normal bokuto won't hold up to training. I was doing the Hojo no kata with a partner at an aikido dojo once and one of the aikido students asked why we use such large bokuto; they use a standard white oak kendo style bokuto for their training. My training partner gave the aikidoka his fat bokuto and took the aikidoka's normal sized one. He then had the aikidoka hold the large bokuto out horizonal and made a straight cut onto it with the kendo style bokuto. When my partner hit the Jikishinkage-ryu bokuto you heard a loud crack and the last 3 inches of the kendo bokuto went sailing into the air landing several feet away. My partner walked over, picked up the tip of the bokuto and handed the aikidoka the two pieces of his kendo bokuto with a smile on his face. (My partner isn't a total jerk thoug, he had a white oak kendo bokuto of higher quality and gave that to the aikido student to replace his broken one. The aikidoka kept the two piece of the busted bokuto as a momento ) A related style called Yagyu Shinkage-ryu uses a very thin bokuto. They mostly use shinai (bamboo swords) for kata that have a lot of sword on sword contact. My teacher in Jikishinkage-ryu is also a teacher of Yagyu Shinkage-ryu. Our bokuto are like axe handles and theirs are like toothpicks. We also use a few other types of bokuto. We have a kodachi bokuto which looks like the Hojo bokuto but smaller. It is unusual because it has a long tsuka; we use the kodachi two handed. When we do the Kodachi no kata we use the kodachi bokuto against a standard kendo bokuto. We also use a furibo which is about 5 feet long. It isn't a club or any other type of weapon but a very large bokuto to practice swinging. It teaches us to not cut with the shoulders... if you try to use shoulders to cut you'll injury yourself! Here is a link to someone I know holding one: http://daito-ryu.de/wp-content/uploads/ ... furibo.jpg Best regards, Chris

Hello all, Not nihonto related but I thought it might fit in this section: a lacquer box. It was my mother's and she gave it to me about 15 years ago because I alway admired it. I can't seem to get any other photos of it to attach but this is the top. I always liked the Shimazu kamon on it Best regards, Chris

Hello all, I've taken a few photos for the sword. I would appreciate any thoughts on it. You can't see jigane or hamon because of the rust but you can see the overall sugata. You can also see some chips that are in the middle of the blade and some chips near the kissaki. There are also some bends that you can see in the photos. The mei was difficult to photograph because of the rust but you can make it out. I don't see any stamps on the nakago. I can't figure out how to upload the images or even link the photos into this post. I set up an album at Sword Forum so I have the external links. Sorry for my lack of computer skills. Nakago http://www.swordforum.com/forums/album.php?albumid=159&attachmentid=122406 Mei http://www.swordforum.com/forums/album.php?albumid=159&attachmentid=122407 Larger chips http://www.swordforum.com/forums/album.php?albumid=159&attachmentid=122408 Kissaki and smaller chips http://www.swordforum.com/forums/album.php?albumid=159&attachmentid=122409 Bends http://www.swordforum.com/forums/album.php?albumid=159&attachmentid=122410 Overall http://www.swordforum.com/forums/album.php?albumid=159&attachmentid=122405 Thanks for any thoughts or feedback. Cheers, Chris

Mr. Robinson, Thanks for the feedback. Yeah I don't think it is very high quality but for the price, why not; plus it has a motif I like. It must be a fairly common style since there are several just like it on ebay right now. Cheers! Chris

Mr. Trotter, Thank you for the advice. The nakago is pretty rusted but I wouldn't consider it rotted. It does have a lot more rust on it though than a gendaito should have. I'm a pretty bad photographer (and all I have is my iPhone) but I'll try to get photos up soon. Cheers! Chris

Hello all, So I went against my usual rule about ebay (don't buy nihonto stuff from ebay) and bought a tsuba from ebay anyway. I got it for a couple reasons: 1st it has an eggplant on it (yay!), 2nd (and most important) it was cheap! I got it for $38 so if it turns out to be worthless no huge loss. I liked the way it looked. I might fit it to a sword I'll use for budo anyway so no big deal. I've seen several tsuba on ebay that look a lot like this one (there are three up for auction right now, although none have eggplants on them). I'm not sure what school they belong to or if they are Yokohama dockside pieces, Chinese made or Japanese made for iaito. It looks like katakiribori (?) and if you look close enough you can see some remains of the chisel work. There is also yellow soft metal inlayed in seemingly random places (two piece of inlay are missing on mine). There is some slight wear at the seppadai so it looks like this tsuba has been mounted before. Any thoughts on what style/school this is? Best regards, Chris

John, Thank you for the reply. I have seen the other tsuba you linked. It is a much nicer example from the Bushu group isn't it? It is clearly superior workmanship. I have a feeling Mr. Masakata was a bit more skilled than Mr. Masatomo huh? Cheers! Chris

Hello all, I've always liked the eggplant theme. It is one of the three lucky treasures of the new year (along with Mt. Fuji and a hawk) and as I understand it a favorite of the Tokugawa. It is what I think is a Bushu Ito school tsuba from the later part of the Edo era. It appears to be signed Masatomo 正友 (thanks to John Stuart over on another forum for the help with the mei). I'm sorry for the poor photographs I take. I'm a better swordsman than I am photographer :lol: I'm open to any comments, thoughts, opinions, or criticisms. The measurements are 7.1cm X 7.3cm X 4.3mm. Thank you for taking the time to look. Chris

Sage advice everyone. I'll see how the brass looks after a few years. I also agree with buying books. I can always use more books for my library Tsuba were never my big thing but I find them more and more interesting and appealing now. In many cases they are a little bit more affordable than swords, too.

Hello Alex et al., I think you might be right about no short cuts. I am just going to have to wait a few hundred years to get it back where it should be :lol: As for papers... I dunno, just sort of makes it feel official. Besides lots of folks here show off nice fittings and swords with cool looking papers I want to fit in

Thanks for all of the replies everyone! I have a feeling it is the sulphur in the eggs that would turn it. I think, at least in part, that is why it worked to keep the shakudo in the bathroom. The various gases coming from the toilet might affect it in the same way as the eggs. On another forum someone suggested that I might just want to leave it alone once i get the iron where I like it. Maybe that'll be my best bet? So on to my second inquiry: what do you guys think is the chance of this thing getting papered? It is old I'm pretty sure of that. I am concerned about the condition it is in. I'm not sure it is in good enough condition to warrant submitting it to shinsa. Thoughts? Cheers, Chris

Mr. Wilson, Thank you for the reply. I might try the plasticine trick out. I'll keep everyone posted if I do. It does have quite a bit of shine on it. Even to take that glare off of it would be nice. I guess my hands aren't oily and salty enough? More french fries and pork rinds for me... Cheers! Chris

Thanks David, I think I am leaning more towards Heianjo as well. I agree; I wish it were kept in better condition before I got it. I'm not sure if the spray paint helped keep it in better condition or made it worse? I just hope that the brass starts to take on some patina. I'd love it if it turned nice and brown like the Onin tsuba you posted. Cheers! Chris

Hi David, Thanks for the warm welcome! The measurements: 7.4cm X 7.5cm X 4mm Best regards, Chris

Thank you again gentlemen for your posts. I will keep everyone posted when I figure out what I will do with this sword. $3,000 for polish plus $300 for a habaki and $450 for shirasaya is a lot of money to me these days (I started over careers and now I am a police officer... cops don't make a whole lot of money. Love the job though). When I get the chance I will post photos of the blade in the current condition. There are a few small bends and some chips that look like they could be polished out (depending on how deep the hamon is). Might be more possible if I get a few stripes on my shoulders.

Hello all, I hope i can figure out the images here... About 20 years ago I got an old tsuba from a local antiques dealer who specialized in Japanese items. Most of his stuff was prints, china, lacquer and furniture. He would dig up the occasional tsuba now and then. This one he sold to me cheap because someone had spray painted it with gold paint. He tended to like kinko stuff anyway. Just a few weeks ago I dug this old tsuba out of my remaining stuff and decided to get rid of the nasty gold paint. A long dip in acetone and some scrubbing with a soft toothbrush and the paint was gone. I used a piece of bamboo to clean the red rust, dirt and grime off. I have been keeping it wrapped in some soft cotton cloth in my pocket. When I'm not keeping it in my pocket I am handling it or I am keeping it in the bathroom on a shelf. I've avoided any chemicals post-acetone and I'm just trying to get some patina on it. The iron is starting to get that dark almost wet look to it. There is almost zero patina on the brass sadly and it is very shiney. Now, years ago I heard that if you keep soft metal in the bathroom the gases from the toilet and the dampness from showering will patina soft metal. I had a shakudo tiger menuki that some well meaning person thought was supposed to be polished bright. It looked like copper when I got it. I used the same treatment I am giving this tsuba and it took a nice dark color and you could even see the golden stripes on the tiger again. Worked out great. The brass on this tsuba doesn't want to help me out. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get a nice golden brown patina on this tsuba? Another kicker for me is I used to manage a small mall food court restaurant during my undergrad days. It had a lot of brass at the front of the restaurant that I would have to polish once a month because after 3 weeks it would start to turn brown. Why won't my tsuba help me out like the restaurant? Another question; a few different collectors that I respect have given me different thoughts about what school this tsuba should be classified as. One group says Onin because it looks rather old and has an Onin feel to it (I guess the rope around the sukashi?). Another group has said Heianjo because it lacks the dots. Given the condition I'm not sure if it would paper at shinsa so it might not be worth the time and effort to send it in. I am open to any thoughts on school/style or if it would be worth sending in to shinsa. Best regards, Chris

Ok, so boat loads is a little over the top but it might explain why we see them more in the UK than other parts of the world. And you are probably right about Meiji era instead of Bakamatsu but the same theory would apply. Good marketing for "Swords from the failed Satsuma Rebellion!" It wouldn't be a total lie, they may very well have been from the Satsuma han... just maybe not used by the rebellion (or used by some of the goshi farmers who didn't own their own sword). Thanks for entertaining my ideas though

Mr. Bowen and Mr. Chan, Thank you both for you replies. I've been digging a little deeper into my sword (which is difficult given that it is more like a rusted crowbar than a sword at the moment). I am forming the opinion that my sword is not the late Ogawa Kanekuni as Mr. Bowen referenced but is the work of his first teacher of the same name. This is based on a few different references I've been able to locate online. I need to buy more books on this topic since this is such a complex time in Japanese sword history (I guess they all are, aren't they?). The late mukansa ranked smith Ogawa Kanekuni's real name was Ogawa Kunihiko (born Jan. 25th, 1925). The Ogawa is spelled "尾川." He became a swordsmith when he joined his first teacher Ogawa Kanekuni's sword forging school in 1939. His teacher spelled Ogawa "小川." Mr. Ogawa Kunihiko used the name Kunitada "圀忠" during the war years. It wasn't until after the war he began to use Kanekuni; his teacher's name. (http://www.sanmei.com/contents/en-us/p1719.html) Ogawa Kanekuni (小川兼國) began learning swordsmithing in 1907 under his teacher Kosaka Kinbei at the Seki token tanren jo. (http://books.google.com/books?id=BWy3gx ... ni&f=false) The mei on my sword is very much like the one in this post: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10275&p=86070&hilit=kanekuni&sid=ea0e25ffdb426a135eb958117c92bf00#p86070 only it has the Ogawa "小川" above the Kanekuni saku. My sword also has a more slender and long nakago like the one shown in this post. The ha machi also seems very pronounced as well. I guess my next task is to try to figure out how to get the wife to let me spend the $$$ for a polish... I've had the sword about 20 years, so what's another 20 til I get it polished? :lol: Best regards, Chris

Hello all, I've been reading this thread since the beginning and thought I'd throw my two cents in. I tend to believe that things are not made up entirely out of the blue. I have a feeling that there is at least some truth to the name Satsuma Rebellion sword. This is pure speculation on my part so take it for what it is worth. Mr. Bottomley's idea about the real origin of these swords makes a lot more sense to me than any other story I've heard. I think Mr. Sinclaire makes a very good point about Satsuma farmer/samurai. I don't have a source but I seem to recall that in most han samurai made up only a very small percentage of the population usually no more than 2-3%. Satsuma allowed their goshi to keep their rank (if only nominal) and thus the Satsuma han had nearly 25% samurai in their population. How many of them were sword carrying bushi in the classical sense? Probably not that many which would require a large stock pile of weapons in castles and other arsenals throughout the han in case of invasion. I have a feeling many of these goshi were not much more than conscript level soldiers with a chip on their shoulder. Maybe they trained in some level of Jigen-ryu, maybe not? At any rate I feel like we see more of these rebellion swords in the UK than in other counties. I've only seen a few at shows (I have always wanted to pick one up but when I have the money I never see them, when I see them I am always strapped for cash... such is my lot) here in the US. I know the Satsuma opened relations with the British just after the Richardson Affair. Maybe many of these swords were originally Satsuma swords and they were dumped off on the British in trade? Being from Satsuma it is an easy connection to make to the Satsuma Rebellion hence the name (maybe in part by some clever marketing strategy)? If you were a 19th century Briton reading about a samurai rebellion in Satsuma wouldn't it be interesting to own a sword from one of their warriors? Hey a boat load of swords from Satsuma just came in... Just a thought. Thanks for a great thread though! Best regards, Chris

Hello all, So I was digging through my things and located a gunto I've had for years now. It has a few slight bends and a few chips in the edge and the whole thing is covered in black rust. There is no pitting so I am leaving it as is for now. The mei is "Ogawa Kanekuni saku" I am assuming it is the Seki smith not the Tokyo smith. The nakago is heavily rusted like the rest of the blade but there is a little bit of old pitting making it difficult, if not impossible, to detect if it has a Seki or Showa stamp on it or not. The nakago is long and slender and the nagasa is about 27+ inches. I've read that Mr. Bowen holds this smith in much lower regard than the Tokyo Kanekuni. Does anyone know much about the Seki smith? Did he mostly make Showato or did he make gendaito as well? Who did he train under? Did he leave any students? I'm guessing he is of no relationship to the late Ogawa Kanekuni smith. I'd really love to get an idea of what to do with the sword. Should I have a decent polish put on it (if it can even take a polish given the condition)? Do I get a cheaper polish assuming it is a Showato and just use it for budo? Get someone to polish a window into it? The length would be good for budo. I am open to any opinions. I've yet to figure out how to attach images here. Once I figure that out I'll throw up some photos of this poor old sword. Best regards and thanks for any help or opinions, Chris Covington