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Everything posted by bluelake
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Aside from those between the breech plug and underlug, I can't seem to find any others. What does "さく? + 116" refer to? Any info on the maker you mentioned? Thanks! Thomas
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I recently acquired a teppo barrel. It's about 90cm in length and .54 cal. It came with an old stock, but they don't match--although the barrel channel is the correct width and depth, the stock is way too short and the underlug inlet doesn't match up with the underlug. In any case, I'm curious if anyone recognizes the barrel maker. I'll attach a few pics and hope the signature is readable. Thanks! Thomas
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TANEGASHIMA HAYAGO ( Quick-loading tubes )
bluelake replied to watsonmil's topic in Tanegashima / Teppo / Hinawajū
Thanks, Ian. There's no hurry at all--if you happen to come across it, let me know. Again, many thanks. T -
TANEGASHIMA HAYAGO ( Quick-loading tubes )
bluelake replied to watsonmil's topic in Tanegashima / Teppo / Hinawajū
Thanks! That is greatly appreciated. :D -
That brings up some neat pics, Piers--thanks! :D T
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TANEGASHIMA HAYAGO ( Quick-loading tubes )
bluelake replied to watsonmil's topic in Tanegashima / Teppo / Hinawajū
Thanks, Piers -
TANEGASHIMA HAYAGO ( Quick-loading tubes )
bluelake replied to watsonmil's topic in Tanegashima / Teppo / Hinawajū
Ian, It is true that Korea imported many matchlocks from Japan for several years after the Imjin War, but not many of those remain. As a matter of fact, the Korean Army Museum is buying a Japanese tanegashima, so that they have one in their collection. Would it be possible to get a copy (or scan) of Boots' article? I've read it before (several years ago), but have been unable to get a copy of it. Thanks Thomas -
Thomas, a really great collection that you posted..is that your site? Everyone should take a look as I dont know of a place were you can see more old Japanese photos. No, not mine; it belongs to a fellow who lives on Okinawa--I found it some time ago while looking for old Korean pics (that is where I found the tigerhunter pic).
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For a lot of great old photos that will eat your time up for about the next day and a half, take a look here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/24443965@N08/sets/
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TANEGASHIMA HAYAGO ( Quick-loading tubes )
bluelake replied to watsonmil's topic in Tanegashima / Teppo / Hinawajū
Thanks, Piers--that's interesting to know. -
TANEGASHIMA HAYAGO ( Quick-loading tubes )
bluelake replied to watsonmil's topic in Tanegashima / Teppo / Hinawajū
Yeah, they are Korean hunters (the original pic mislabeled them as Chinese). The Korean matchlocks were based upon the Japanese matchlocks brought to Korea during the Imjin War. For decades, Koreans had problems in producing their own (and into the early 17th C. imported many from Japan), but by the middle 17th C. were making matchlocks of good quality (and exported many to China). It eventually became a legal offense to produce inferior matchlocks and there are records of gun makers dealing with the wrath of the king. Also, each village had to stock a local armory with matchlocks from the main firearms office (hullyeondogam), which actually became a source of graft by some high-ranking military officers; that practice was short-circuited when each province started producing their own matchlocks. The main differences between the Japanese and Korean matchlocks were mainly cosmetic. Korean matchlocks were, generally, simple and unadorned, while Japanese matchlocks--as is well-known here--tend to be fancy. Also, the makers of Japanese matchlocks are known and their work signed, much like with swords, while the makers of Korean matchlocks are almost completely unknown (there are a couple of exceptions to that); the gun makers in Korea were just considered gov't employees and not artisans, so the only marks you would find on Korean matchlocks were those of the arsenal they came from and when they were made. One other difference is the barrel muzzle; while Japanese muzzles generally had a tulip shape, Korean muzzles did not. T -
TANEGASHIMA HAYAGO ( Quick-loading tubes )
bluelake replied to watsonmil's topic in Tanegashima / Teppo / Hinawajū
Ron, I think it was taken around 1900. It's one of my favorite old-time photos. The guy in my avatar looks a lot like my g-grandfather (American Indian--Odawa). A little OT: You are right--Felice Beato was quite a character and photographer. I bought copies of the negatives of what he took in the 1871 US-Korea conflict (Shinmiyangyo 辛未洋擾) and have used them extensively in my research (Also, various Korean orgs--public and private--have borrowed them from me for different events). It's interesting when you look at his photos taken in Korea and China; you can see he staged some of them, as they are very similar in the way they were set up. Still, they are literally a snapshot of the past and extremely important to historical research. O.K., back to hayago :D For those of you who make your own hayago, how do you do it? Materials, procedures, etc.? -
TANEGASHIMA HAYAGO ( Quick-loading tubes )
bluelake replied to watsonmil's topic in Tanegashima / Teppo / Hinawajū
Ron, You can't see it in my avatar, but that fellow, along with two others, were using ball dispensers. I'll attach the complete picture here. Thomas -
TANEGASHIMA HAYAGO ( Quick-loading tubes )
bluelake replied to watsonmil's topic in Tanegashima / Teppo / Hinawajū
This is a very interesting discussion. The tubes are a very good idea; as one who loads his patched roundball and powder separately, I'll try to make some hayagos this summer when I visit back to my hometown in the States. I cannot find sources that show Koreans using such a device; the Korean loading procedure described individual components (and only single wadding). They did, however, use a device (called an ogu 烏口) that dispensed balls; it was shaped like a bird's beak and had a pouch attached to the back--I have seen similar in Japanese pictures and drawings. Regarding powder, although the amount burned of 154gr would give a good kick, I think most of the powder would remain unburned and just be wasted out the muzzle. If the same amount was shot from a long-barreled musket, such as a wall gun, most of the powder would be burned. -
POSSIBLE BIZEN TANEGASHIMA with Sakai influence
bluelake replied to watsonmil's topic in Tanegashima / Teppo / Hinawajū
Piers, That's a beauty. Thomas -
POSSIBLE BIZEN TANEGASHIMA with Sakai influence
bluelake replied to watsonmil's topic in Tanegashima / Teppo / Hinawajū
LOL, Ron :D For anyone interested, the "moose milk" part comes from the type of oil some people use in the recipe, which turns it a little milky-white (kind of like ouzo and water ) -
POSSIBLE BIZEN TANEGASHIMA with Sakai influence
bluelake replied to watsonmil's topic in Tanegashima / Teppo / Hinawajū
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POSSIBLE BIZEN TANEGASHIMA with Sakai influence
bluelake replied to watsonmil's topic in Tanegashima / Teppo / Hinawajū
Along with Ron and Piers methods of cleaning, I would also mention a home-made recipe that works really well for a cleaning solution that goes by different names, such as 3-2-1 and Moose Milk. The basic recipe is 3 parts alcohol, 2 parts hydrogen peroxide and 1 part Murphy's Oil Soap (hence, the first name). There are some similar recipes that also add in castor oil, witch hazel, water, etc., but I've just used the basic and it cleans the bore out well. Thomas -
Thanks, Piers The name is pretty much the same in Korean (가시나무--gashi namu) Thomas
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I wonder if it could be this variety:
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Hi Ron, A related question--I have seen the wood for stocks shown as both cherry and oak. Was one of those the preferred wood? Maybe another? Thomas
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Hi Ron, I would also be very interested in knowing how the channel was drilled. As you said, the bit was probably sharp and slow. Thomas
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Thanks, Ron. Maybe that is why most Western muzzleloaders use thimbles instead of making a channel into the stock. Thomas
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I asked the following on another board, but had no replies. Maybe someone here has an answer: One thing I noticed regarding both Japanese and Korean matchlocks is a split on the bottom of the stocks, which covers the entire length of the ramrod channel. As the barrel inlet side usually doesn't show a split, I'm wondering if the split had something to do with inletting the ramrod channel. Does anybody know? Korean example (on a wall gun):
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Pics of Tanegashima, with descriptions
bluelake replied to Bugyotsuji's topic in Tanegashima / Teppo / Hinawajū
Very interesting, Ron. I believe it was a very similar situation here in Korea. Although Korean royal archives show that friction lock firearms (probably wheellocks) were captured in the 17th century in battles with Russians, there is no evidence that Koreans ever used them. Much like Japan, Korea used matchlocks from the 16th-19th centuries; they only changed to more modern firearms after the 2nd Japanese invasion of 1875-76. Korea was a very closed society in the 19th century, especially due to Western encroachment in the 1860s and 1870s. Korea first obtained matchlocks from Japan in 1589 when they were given as gifts by the governor of Daemado (Tsushima). However, Korea did not have much interest in them at that time. It wasn't until the Japanese invasion of 1592 that the importance of matchlocks was understood. After that point, a lot of R&D went into them, but, until Korea was able to produce its own matchlocks, they trained with and used ones captured from the Japanese. Korea produced its first successful matchlock in 1593. A former Japanese general, who became a naturalized Korean citizen, was instrumental in Korea's development of the firearm. Still, records show that Korea was importing thousands of matchlocks from Japan even into the 1620s, as the quality of the locally produced muskets was not good enough. That changed by the mid to late 17th century after Dutch sailors were stranded in Korea; refinements were made to Korean matchlocks using the technology the Dutch brought with them and Korean-made matchlocks improved greatly in quality, as evidenced by large Chinese orders for them. Matchlock quality became so important that there were severe penalties for producing sub-standard weapons.