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@Jon D Hi Jon, there are examples and history of your swordsmith Katsumasa in the NMB Downloads (top of page) in paper Kojima Tokijiro Kanemichi and Kojima Tosho Family

On hold

Hi Markus, Thank you so much for taking the time to stop by this thread – it truly means a lot to me. I completely understand how busy things must be for you, especially with wrapping up the Tosogu Classroom project, and I really appreciate that you still make time to share your expertise here. I’m genuinely excited to hear your thoughts whenever you have a chance – no rush at all. Just knowing that you’ll chime in at some point already feels incredibly valuable, and I’m very grateful in advance. Best regards, Dennis

I will chime back in as quickly as possible 👍 I know many here have reached out lately via email on other topics, and I try to work off that back log asap 😇 Just very occupied these days to get the Tosogu Classroom over the finishing line.

Hi Markus, Thank you so much for taking the time to comment here – it really adds a lot of depth to this discussion. I found your note about the transmitted dates very interesting and it certainly helps to put things into perspective. Since this thread already touches on some key aspects of Norinaga’s work, I’m curious (and I’m sure others here would be too) how you personally approach these pieces when it comes to understanding which generation they might belong to. For example, in the case of my blade, the NBTHK and Tanobe sayagaki both attribute it to Norinaga without specifying the generation, but the workmanship has certain traits I’ve seen associated with early Shikkake. I’ve also posted the oshigata here in case it offers any points of comparison with known examples. I’d be very interested in your perspective – not necessarily as a firm verdict, but just in terms of what stands out to you or how you’d frame it in the broader Norinaga corpus. Thanks again for joining in, it’s great to have your insights here. Best regards, Dennis

I was pointed out to this thread to comment. As written in the preface to my publication: "Point (3) lists the handed-down artistic period where this date has to be taken with a grain of salt. Some dates are based on extant dated signatures and are more or less accurate, but most of them were transmitted again and again over the centuries with the initial listings often simply based on hearsay." What I am trying to say is that all of that is piling on and piling on atop of surviving period sources. There is re-assessment necessary on all levels, no exception. And that is where we are right now.

Yes, thats what I was thinking too. Thank you

Hi Kirill, Thank you very much for your detailed insights regarding the relative standing of Hōshō compared to Shikkake. I find this perspective extremely valuable, especially since I am still learning how these subtle aesthetic differences influence market perception and appraisal. I agree that Hōshō’s tighter hada and more subtle style are highly appreciated – in fact, when I first started looking into Yamato schools, I initially considered Hōshō blades for precisely that reason. What fascinates me about Shikkake, however, is that despite being more “rustic,” it has a strong daitō tradition and often shows bold features (wide motohaba, powerful suguha with gunome, etc.), which gives it a distinct character among the Gokaden. Your comparison also helps me understand better why Shikkake seems to have an excellent TH-to-Jūyō pass rate, even if it doesn’t always reach the very top tier like Hōshō. This adds important context when thinking about both scholarly and market perspectives. Thanks again for sharing this – I really appreciate contributions like yours, as they make discussions like these so much richer.

Both the Jūyō papers and the sayagaki by Tanobe-sensei attribute the blade simply to Shikkake Norinaga, without mentioning any later generation. From what I’ve seen, Tanobe-sensei typically adds “Nidai” or another note when he considers a later generation, so the lack of such a qualifier strongly suggests he attributes it to the Shodai. the characteristics described in the sayagaki (and also reflected in the Jūyō zufu) align well with what’s documented for the founder’s work, so I feel confident this is meant to be first generation Norinaga. I really appreciate you raising this point – it’s something I wanted to be sure about myself. Best regards, Dennis

Thanks. That would make more sense.

I believe that's just the starting era of the shodai and nidai smiths and not their entire working period.

Methinks the dates are a little messed up. Dated blades up to 1340 for the Shodei with 1272 given as year of birth. Maybe Markus can clarify.

Hi Lewis, Thank you for pointing that out – you’re absolutely right that the Jūyō paper itself doesn’t specify the generation. In this case, the NBTHK usually only states the smith’s name for mumei blades, even if the style and period strongly indicate a first‑generation work. What gives me more confidence about the Shodai attribution is the Tanobe sayagaki, which explicitly mentions “Shodai Norinaga,” and the stylistic features described in the Jūyō Zufu – late Kamakura workmanship, broad mihaba, and the typical Shikkake‑hada – all align with first‑generation examples. So, while the official NBTHK certificate is conservative in its wording, the combination of sayagaki and the blade’s characteristics makes me quite comfortable referencing it as Shodai in discussions (while also clarifying why).

Wrong Is the rest of the text correct? What said Fujishiro

Dear Logan. If the seller is saying early Edo according to the Japanese Sword Society does he offer anything to back that up, papers for example? So far what we can see is an unsigned wakizashi with a very questionable hi,ouit of polish and with unattractive mounts that may, just possibly, be genuine. You don't say how much the seller is asking but whatever it is you can do a lot better. Unsigned Shinto wakizashi are not hard to find and you can get a lot better than this for not very much money. Your call but this is going to require quite a bit spending on it, assuming that you see something in it that justifies the expense, and given that it will always be an unsigned sword in a category where there are many examples to be found it is never going to repay your investment. Lert us know how this turns out for you and keep looking. All the best.

Hi Charlie C., welcome to this great forum. I appreciate what you stated in your post. It was well stated and is a good guide for those that are starting a collection of tsuba. I agree that the money one wishes to spend most likely has to do with the eventual reselling of the piece. Since I have about 200 tsuba in my collection, my objective is for me to keep them and enjoy them and not resell them. There is a lot of learning to be had from even inexpensive tsuba. My philosopy is don't change a winning game, always change a losing game. I beleive that I am winning with my inexpensive purchases of tsuba on Ebay. For me it is all about what one can afford at the time of purchase and what new motifs and designs can be added to the collection. Onward my friend!

I seem to remember Darcy saying that one of his favourite blades was a top tier Senjuin.

Unfortunately the photographs were taken very poorly. This is one of Japanese setups with a fixed box and a fixed light which is however positioned in the way it accents hadori but not the hamon. It however also catches a bit of hada so it sort of has appearance of a real sword, but in reality you can't see anything at all. That this is 2023 session might mean something, or it might not. It is sort of like getting an award in Physics - "we did not give awards to Europeans for a long time... We need to support this topic because they are facing hardships... this guy was coming up for awards many times but never got any". All are valid and present considerations in all such "competitions", and in the sword world the first thing to consider is what were the Norinaga attributed blades that passed, which more or less defines the range. In regards to school's standing, the first thing to check is whether there is an upper bound on attributions. For example, the best Taima can become Yukimitsu, the best Echizen Tametsugu can move Shizu, Go, Norishige, even Masamune. Shikkake is however relatively well defined because its periodic gunome or alike hamon is not common for the period. At times it goes Shizu or Yamato Shizu or Mino Kanenobu but its not very common. So in principle you can have a very strong Shikkake blade, and there are some. Overall while it does not have strong TJ potential as a school, at the same time it has a good TH to Juyo pass rate, so the worksmanship is significantly tighter compared to say Tegai. Aoe is not Yamato, its in fact one of the greatest schools of Nihonto which however produced quite a few trashy blades. So did Bizen, but somehow it did not hurt its reputation nearly as much. In regards to Hosho - even tighter work, daito are rare while Shikkake is mostly daito school, I would rate Hosho higher but mostly because Hosho aesthetic is more subtle and classic. Senjuin is a catchall for pre-end-of-Kamakura period Yamato blades. There are absolute top tier items, and there are quite a few trashy ones.

The original post says this is a Shodei Norinaga Shikkake but neither the Juyo paper you posted nor the sayagaki mention the generation. Does the Zufu clarify this attribution? I ask because the nidei also worked in a similar style. NORINAGA (則長), 1st gen., Shōō (正応, 1288-1293), Yamato – “Yamato Norinaga” (大和則長), “Yamato Norinaga saku” (大和則長作), “Yamato no Kuni Shikkake-jū Norinaga saku” (大和国尻懸住則長作), “Yamato Shikkake-jū Norinaga saku” (大和尻懸住則長作), first name Tarōzaemon (太郎左衛門), Shikkake school, according to tradition the son of Norihiro (則弘), because there are no blades extant by Norihiro – who is considered as ancestor of the Shikkake school – the 1st gen. Norinaga as often regarded as actual founder of the school, he worked according to tradition in the vicinity of the old marketplace of Kishida village (岸田) in the Yamabe district (山辺) of Yamato province, he was active from about Shōō to Ryakuō (暦応, 1338-1342), there exists a tantō with the date signature of the third year of Bunpō (文保, 1319) and the information “made at the age of 48” and a tantō with the date of the third year of Ryakuō (1340) and the age of 69, that means we can calculate his year of birth with Bun´ei nine (文永, 1272), there are tachi, tantō, and naginata are extant whereas tantō can also be in kanmuri-otoshi-zukuri or shōbu-zukuri, tachi have a shallower sori than contemporary blades, the jigane is an itame mixed with masame, ji-nie, chikei, and some yubashiri, and appears as so-called “Shikkake-hada” (mokume along the shinogi and masame along the hamon), the hamon is a suguha or suguha-chō mixed with uniform ko-gunome elements in nie-deki, in addition hotsure, nijūba, kinsuji, and sunagashi appear, the bōshi ist sugu, runs out as yakitsume, and tends with its hakikake often to kaen but can also appear as midare-komi, some hamon interpretations with uniform ko-gunome remind of the Dōei school (道永), this characteristic feature is already mentioned in the Keifun Ki (解紛記) which was published in Keichō twelve (慶長, 1607), ō-wazamono, jō-saku ◎ NORINAGA (則長), 2nd gen., Jōji (貞治, 1362-1368), Yamato – “Yamato no Kuni Norinaga” (大和国則長), “Yamato Sakon no Jō Norinaga saku” (大和左近允則長作), “Yamato no Kuni Shikkake Norinaga” (大和国尻懸 則長), son of the 1st gen., successive generations Norinaga continue to work in the style of the 1st gen. but from the start of the Muromachi period a noticeable decline in quality can be seen, old records of the school say that short signatures of the kind “Yamato Norinaga saku” belong to the 1st gen. and longer naga-mei with the supplement “no Kuni,” “Shikkake,” or “Sakon no Jō” (左近允) to the 2nd gen., but recent comparative studies of extant signatures have disproved this, i.e. no conclusions can be drawn just on the basis of the length of early Norinaga signatures

Darcy was a dealer no more or less. He's never been to a shinsa and what he says is only his opinion. I met him in Tokyo and was able to judge the level of his knowledge. I don't believe anything, swords are judged on their artistic quality and I don't see how they can be put in “competition”. A Yamato is not comparable to a Bizen or a Soshu.

Pm sent. It's time to get basic knowledge.

Hi, This is a very interesting post which revealed the two major philosophies regarding tosogu collection. Dan, I definitely respect your idea of sharing your experiences about how to find interesting tsuba on eBay. Apparently you have been doing well with your philosophy of buying anything available and pleasant to your taste. I personally am a practitioner of the other philosophy that other kind people posted about saving money and buying more expensive tosogu that very likely with higher qualities, but I agree with you that if you are not interested in re-selling your collection and enjoying your current practice, you should keep doing it. The ultimate goal of anyone who buys tosogu should be to please themselves, then maybe gain some economic profit in due course. I am against some opinions indicated in this post that expensive tosogus are always better than cheap ones, or cheap ones are all of poor quality; but it is true that tosogus of higher qualities are very rarely cheap. So my suggestion to new buyers is that one should probably find as many examples as possible online or in books to decide for oneself what 'good quality' means, then join the trade with cash. I believe this should be true in any collection, not just tosogu, that browsing provides more info to new buyers than buying.

Hi Lewis, thank you very much for pointing me towards Sesko’s Kotozen-HC Kantei Reference. That’s exactly the kind of resource one should have when working with blades of this level, and I’m glad you mentioned it. I’ll be meeting a close friend on Tuesday who has the volume in his library, so I’ll be able to study those pages directly and compare the three Norinaga examples with my sword. I’ll make sure to share any interesting observations here afterwards – it should be very insightful to see how these oshigata line up. Thanks again for the excellent recommendation! Best regards, Dennis

野村包教 Nomura Kanenori