Sword Find

[chrstphr]

well, i am happy my assumptions were closer to the mark, but for me shinshinto and showa are not the same. So i missed as well.

 

Still it was fun to guess.

 

 

Chris

[runagmc]

It could be Shinshinto... I don't think anyone has proven it to be anything yet... except gimei.

 

Personally, I can't decide on age for sure...

[runagmc]

If the sword was made to be gimei by the smith, and the false mei was chiseled at the time of manufacture, I would expect to see a more even patina in and around the mei. If a swordsmith wanted to make a gimei sword, normal progression would be to chisel the mei and then do the patination. This is why I think the sword was made mumei, and the false mei was added later.

 

Like I said, I'm not sure about age...

As Paul said, the apparent lack of overpolishing is a good point to consider, but there are plenty of swords hundreds of years old that haven't been over polished. The nakago does have a somewhat sloppy look, but I think that can be found in most periods, so that doesn't necessarily point to Showa.

 

Here's a Naminohira from around 1470 to compare.

Yasurime is close, nakago jiri is close... Also the OP's sword's large grainy hada mixing running itame and mokume, and the sugu/ko-midareba seem to match Naminohira.

 

Since my argument doesn't even convince myself, I don't expect it to convince anyone else :D , but I think it at least raises some questions about the age of the sword, as well as the age and circumstance of the gimei.

[paulb]

Firstly I am sorry I mixed up posts. It was Mark that made the Showa call not Chris B who only stated it was gimei.

Adam,

I understand your thinking and as you have said other than the sword looks to be gimei nothing else is so far proven or even half proven.

One of the problems with trying to assesss swords from images is colour. the variaiton obtained from differenct cameras scanners and display screens can totally distort colour and combinations/ detail. As the colour of the nakago is an important factor in such appraisal internet assessment is immideiately challenging.

In this case the colour does not look that old. I am not convinced regarding your argument about the mei. I tend to find that the more complex I have to make an argument to fit my idea the less likely it is to be right.

I can understand your call from the shape point of view, it has a certain aged elegence which would not automatically point to Kotetsu or any other shinto smith. However the patina of the nakago, the style of the mei all suggest something much later to me (again only another opinion).

You make another valid point. The only way we can make a realistic appraisal is by comparing the blade to known examples of a particular school. In this case I mentioned that I had seen something similar in terms of nakago style, colour and the way the mei looked on a blade I had previously owned for a while which was made in the 1920s.

Without seeing the sword in hand I honestly believe it is nearly impossible to make a confident call on a sword like his other than whethr the signature is right or wrong. Even in hand it would be challenging.

[runagmc]

Yeah, I agree with everything you say.

 

The only thing I would ask is about the mei... So you don't agree that it appears to have been done after the nakago had developed it's patina? I can't see any other explanation for the displaced metal around the chisel marks, and the chisel marks themselves, looking "fresh"... meaning, those areas should have developed the same patina as the rest of the nakago, if the false mei was done at the time of original manufacture.

[paulb]

Just a thought but if the tsuka was a tightish fit is possible that it could rub against the highest points on the nakago and gentle burnish it? ( my turn for complex theories) or if it was really extra tight it may form an effecticve seal on the raised edges of the mei and protect it from dampness and oxidation. I have seen this rubbed edge look on other pieces, the amount depends on the depth of the mei and the amount of metal dispalced. In this case the mei would suggest a lot.

[runagmc]

I did think of the high points being rubbed down somehow, but the mei still just looked more freshly done or more crisp when compared to the yasurime and everything else... but mabey your right. I guess this post will have to end with more questions than answers... for me at least.

[Type99]

Thanks for all the replies so far. I was planning on buying this sword but that's not going to happen now. I'm glad I went to the forum first before committing myself to the purchase.