unknown type of kyu gunto?

[Eric M]

hello

i would like to get your view on this kuy gunto (bottom one)

it has 2 scabbard hangers which is very strange for this type of model (never seen it in reference book).

did you come accross such kyu gunto? which type of unit would use 2 hangers?

the blade has a 64cm nagasa (3cm shorter than the other kyu gunto - the scabbard make it look much smaller)

it has a grooved blade (showato) and swastika mon

thx for your help

eric

[george trotter]

Hi Eric,

There are plenty of photos from the Meiji-Taisho period showing officers of the Army wearing these swords in the field. Both single hanger and double hanger types are used together during this period. The second (lower) hanger will slide off, so was always intended to be optional it seems. The second hanger also appeared on the early shingunto pattern of 1934 (Type 94) and was also removeable. In 1938 this lower hanger was abolished (Type 98) in the new army regulations, but they are still occasionally seen still in place. Only the Navy kept to two hangers at all times...even up to 1945.

Suggest you google the Russo-Japanese War...you'll probably see pics of both types.

Regards.

[Jimmy R]

I read somewhere about a revision after some battle where the design was changed due to the way it hung with two hangers.

Jim

[Geraint]

Hi Jim,

 

Never thought of it as odd but here is a picture of one with the two hangers though the lower one shows no sign of being removable as George suggests, must give it a try.

[george trotter]

Hi Geraint, maybe don't try too hard to remove the lower hanger...maybe some are not meant to come off...I only repeated what I have read and the few I have seen (all of which had traditional blades, not the factory made swords with the shorter handle). If you do try, be careful.

Regards,

[Geraint]

Hi George,

 

Thanks for the caveat but don't worry, I'll probably leave well alone.

 

Cheers.

[Eric M]

i think i solved the mystery

http://www.h4.dion.ne.jp/~t-ohmura/gunto_085.htm

such 2 hangers scabbard were used by special naval landing force

it makes sense, especially as naval swords had 2 hangers as well

(no where else did i find 2 hangers, the second hanger is not removeable - like in shin guntos)

[SwordGuyJoe]

There is a difference. The link is pointing at Navy mounts, yours is Army. The second ashi is not odd, just a variant.

[george trotter]

Hi, I saw this pic of the removable lower suspension ring on a kyugunto scabbard...you can see that it has a slot so it will slide over the chape on the bottom of the scabbard....so if it has this slot it is removable.

Hope this helps