Nioi-Gire?

[Lingonberry]

I know it's a bit hard to tell from these pics, but is it just me or does this naginata seem to have nioi-gire (break in the Hamon) smack in the middle of the blade? It seems like the hamon just kinda... stops... once it reaches the part of the blade where the camera flash obscures everything and then it slowly comes back a bit a few inches after that...

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/180832009317?_t ... 500wt_1413

[paulb]

Hi Adam,

I can see why you might ask. I cant tell much from the image. I would normally expect breaks in the nioi guchi to be much smaller than this. I am wondering if it iss just rubbing on that section of the hamon that has caused this effect. I dont think it is possible to say with any certainty. Regarding other points made in the description. Most polishers I have ever spoken to tell me you cant do a partial polish therefore the suggesstion you could do a $50 fix to correct a fault seems to be strange. If it was the "experts" that told the seller this one might have cause to question their expertise and therefore their vale judgement as well.

[Marius]

Adam,

 

honestly, what is the point of this? Would you shell out $2k for a sword whose current owner does not care to show decent pictures? It may have nioi-giri, it may have ha-giri, shinae, fukure, it may have all the flaws you can imagine - but you will never see it, at least not on pictures taken with 1998 vintage mobile phone.

 

eBay can be cool, but only if you buy from reputable dealers, whom you can ask about the condition and form whom you can expect an honest answer. Otherwise, there is not much to be bought and nothing to be learned from those swords on eBay.

[Lingonberry]

I wasn't actually going to place a bid. I just wanted to see an example of nioi-gire because I've only ever seen drawings/diagrams so far. Frankly, I don't intend to ever buy anything expensive on ebay EVER. Still fun to poke around on it though.

[Kronos]

It's hard to say if thats nioi-gire from those photographs. The only example I can find online is here http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/kizu.htm and as Paul stated nioi-gire are usually much smaller. Also in one of the photographs you can barely see what might appear to be the Hamon running through the alleged area so could easily just be rubbing or anything like that.

 

This is a perfect example to anyone reading of why more often than not you'll lose out on ebay unless you explicitly trust the seller because 90% of photographs are sub-standard and you cannot trust your own judgement without having all the information. For all I know it could be the 3rd gen Kunishige rated at 75 points by hawley in fine condition apart from small kizu that after a polish would paper well and be well worth the initial price. From the information provided there's just no way of knowing either way.

[nagamaki - Franco]

In one sense novice collectors can get some protection from the vast minefield of hidden obscure flaws by purchasing papered swords. But, then again, by buying the best one can afford, which for some may be Juyo, it is quite possible to be purchasing a sword with a nioi-giri which has been expertly filled in by the polisher. Ah, just when you thought it was safe to get back in the water .... one point being here, here we are chasing flaws even before we learn how to recognize good nioi and nie. "It's the sword that finds the owner."

[Lingonberry]

I don't think this one is papered though. I believe he mistook the receipts from Japan Sword Co.'s restoration as well as the Police Registration number for "papers." To be honest, I'm not even sure he knows what "papers" are. Even then I've heard that since the 1970's people have been making fake NBTHK/NTHK papers complete with forged signatures. I remember seeing an obvious Chinese fake hanging in a frame (yes, really) in a cutlery store in Arkansas, complete with fake papers. It was on the wall behind the counter and didn't have any for sale sign so I assumed they weren't trying to sell it. With that in mind I didn't really have the heart to tell them it was a fake because they seemed so proud of it... so long as they don't try to sell it there is no harm in letting them live the fantasy since the money was already spent and lost.

[Jimmy R]

I have spent the last three months setting up and perfecting(loose term) Nihonto photography and I can say with some certainty that is just the lighting. By the by I also would like to say that that Naginata looks like a steal to me. The policy of eBay and paypal would protect you in the case of fatal flaws. It is best to ask for specific pictures and offer the seller guidance in how to capture the images if you are a potentially serious buyer. My first four Nihonto all came off of eBay and they all papered. It is just a matter of research and trepidatious movement towards the maximum degree of certainty. But for people who are not certain, buy a thousand dollars worth of books. And also did the original author of this thread just ask for a picture of the area? I mean come on.

Jim

[Lingonberry]

I thought it might just be the lighting in the one picture (with the bright reflection) but there was another picture in which the hamon appeared the same as in the first picture which is why I asked. As for why I didn't ask for pictures... I never said I was interested in buying it and I feel that it would be a bit rude to ask for more pictures and getting the guy's hope up just to satisfy my own curiosity.